if your going to shaft a class with rng do it to ALL OF THEM
3 Likes
RTB hasn’t been truly rng since shadowlands
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combat was sooooooooooooooooooo much better
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then play combat, classic is right there
Combat has a real identity.
Currently Outlaw has no identity look at the TWW alpha it is a mess.
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all of my friend play retail and i love retail… a lot! that’s why i dont want to go to classic…
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It’s not that bad with the 4 set. You pretty much always have 3-6 buffs going. Make sure you have true bearing or reroll.
No 4 set in TWW alpha.
Based on my interactiins with other players, R’t’B does not appear to be well liked. At all.
Reskinned combat was the way to go. I know thats what outlaw is to an extent, but R’t’B, despite it being far less problematic than it once was, really hurts the general “flow” of the spec.
I feel Rogue is a class Blizzard wishes they could have a time machine with. While they’ve done a solid job differentiating the specs of late, and i find Sub to be more enjoyable than its ever been, it also feels like it shouldn’t exist.
Subtlety. While it is technically accurate, its also not particularly awe - inspiring. Imagine if Fury was called “Aggressive” or Marksmanship was called “Accuracy”. Its not that they wouldn’t fit but they sound really…stupid.
As it currently stands, Rogue three specs are essentially
-Pirate (Outlaw)
-Rogue (Assa)
-Ninja (Sub)
While thematically seperated in 2024 they also feel kind of…silly? When i think of a Rogue in the fantasy genre i think:
-Stealth, Daggere, Crits and Poison
-Expert duelist
-Hired muscle / bodyguard
-Sniper
In my eyes, in a perfect world, you would have one spec focused on the straight up…combat. The hired muscle / duelist aspect. Could call it “Guile” if Combat is to bland.
Next up well, Assassination. But i would bundle sub into this section as well. Most poison dagger wielding assassins need to be masters of stealth, because daggers aren’t particularly ideal for direct combat.
Last but not least, the Deadeye. I get wanting a pure melee DPS class, but Hunters being their cousin, now have a melee spec. I get it from a balance standpoint, but a Rogue without a ranged spec is quite strange thematically.
So ya. Guile, Assassination and Deadeye feel like they would capture what q “Rogue” is all about.
At the same time, i understand not messing with years of development.
R’t’B sux.
Sub is fine thematically.
So is Assassination with Gouge back.
Outlaw who knows what flavor it will be in TWW???
Sub needs to lean into it’s “Shadowblade” identity more and it’s “ninja” identity less.
It could also stand to lose a lot of it’s baggage but you can say that for a LOT of classes and a lot of things about rogue in general.
Roll the bones, Slice and dice, Thistle Tea, etc… Yeah they’re nostalgic and all but I really do not want my class to be forced into high burst windows then stretches of doing pitiful damage. Especially when I’m role-playing a pirate or duelist, not a “Vanish into the shadows for extra dps, then dance in the shadows for more burst, then vanish again for more dps!” class. That identity can go to Sub or Assassin- or be made a PVP specific talent build- not the be all end all for most Rogues.
way too many buttons that all boil down to “These do high damage on a long cooldown- you must sync it all up to a specific rotation while shadowdance/vanish/symbols of death is off cooldown”.
There’s no gameplay choices being made here- a slightly more advanced macro system could play rogue for you.
3 Likes
Outlaw is a broad term to describe a pirate, mercenary, brawler, or combatant. Its really not that hard to understand.
What theme is combat? What is combat? How do you make “combat” a tangible identity?
This is my biggest problem with playing rogue right now. Melee specs with over 10 buttons when you have beast mastery hunters hitting 5 buttons to do the same thing or better from the safety of range.
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Combat is also a broad term.
That is why Outlaw never succeeded and keeps failing. Combat had an identity.
1 Like
it never had a identity, it was the pvp spec
… That was Sub.
Did Rogue never have an identity to begin with? (Yes.)
Is that why blizzard can’t figure out how to make Rogue interesting and constantly has to rework it? (Yes)
should they just stop and look to other examples of rogues in media like D&D or FF14’s new Viper to make a successful design? (Yes. God. Please.)
You mean PVE.
combat back then had multiple talents that increased your dodge and parry chance while other specs did, such as nerves of steal, weapon proficiencies, riposte and others
it was the to go pvp spec at the time, unsure about current classic but thats how it was in vanilia.
Sorry but i mained rogue from vanilla through cataclysm, and not once was combat ever considered a viable “pvp spec.” In vanilla you were either seal fate daggers or hemo/prep if you got super good naxx gear. In tbc they added shadowstep for sub which then made it the go to spec for the expansion. Wrath and cata both had sub as the main pvp spec with pve’ers able to come in as glass cannons and use mutilate, however the fact that you had to stack deadly poison to 5 for max envenom damage basically killed assass in serious pvp thanks to rolling poison dispels from druids and poison cleanse totems from shaman.
Combat has only been a pvp spec now in dragonflight, where at the highest level rogues are used purely for cc and setups.
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There was a fun warrior dueling spec in tbc called ar/hemo but then they nerfed macros so that you couldn’t macro riposte into ss and have it cast first when it procced.
1 Like