I just really miss when situational abilities like shackle undead and CC in general were important, when healer DPS wasn’t a factor in getting spots in keys, and when I didn’t spend all of my non-raid time feeling like I need to go as hard and fast as possible with no breaks. M+ just plays nothing like traditional WoW dungeons crawls.
Due to the weight of m+ rewards (repeatable all week, weekly chest, scales to exactly your power level) it feels like WoW at the end game IS m+ with raiding/arena becoming more and more a side show where you get to enjoy your m+ gear.
I really hope that SL will do something to either balance m+ out or give us more alternatives with better rewards.
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It won’t. Mythic+ is overly efficient, but it’s been like this for over 3 years, 4 by the time Shadowlands releases. Dialing it back now would result in massive backlash, no matter how necessary it is.
M+ -is- endgame gearing now for anyone who cares about efficiency.
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I don’t get the M+ because all I ever see is people saying how disappointing their drops are and how others drop and ruin the run.
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I will say that I don’t feel this is much of an issue at least thru +12s or so, and that the -only- healers I see people actively avoiding in the M+15ish range are Priests.
I believe you’ve raised this topic before. Would your solution still be the same? A mode of M+ that is more challenging but not timed?
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I think Megadungeons have amazing potential to recreate that oldschool dungeon feeling. M+ has that “go go go” mentality, so nobody stops to come up with unorthodox strategies or socialize with their teammates. Megadungeons don’t have that timer pressuring the team, so people can take the time to experiment with their abilities and have those “what if we try this” moments. I remember the days when it was almost universally known that Moon was Polymorph, Square was trap, Skull and X were kill targets in that order, etc… and many pulls people took the time to mark and explain where the mobs will be LoSed.
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I don’t even mind having a fail state like we do now.
But double the timers, make the “success” threshold more akin to FFXIV’s instance timers, where it’s basically just making sure you’re not totally stonewalled and trying to force it anyway. The bonus upgrade stuff can function as it does now, but +1 should be much more lenient.
Then, to compensate, add a death limit, like some Mythic only raid encounters have done in the past. I think Ra-Den used 30? So lets go with that. 30 deaths and the run is failed, even if you make the base (now more lenient) timer.
This way nothing has to be go-go-go. If someone has to go answer the door, it’s not a big deal. If someone has a sudden poop attack, not a big deal. Someone DCs for a minute, not a big deal.
I think more mobs would have to be made immune to long-term CC like Hex/Poly though. If people would just do keys above their level by CCing 80% of every pull, that’s not super genuine. Unless the rewards also get pushed back ~5 keys worth on top of it.
Anyway, sorry, that’s a bit of a tangent and still doesn’t really solve the “M+ gearing overshadows everything else” issue.
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The best part about doing m+ is not doing m+. That and, as you say, seeing the fallout from people getting their [15th belt of dissapointed] 
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Yea mechagon was terrific! The first night it was out I had an absolute blast figuring it out with my friends.
Then people whined and it got nerfed. It was boring after that.
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I still feel like having a pool of lives versus a timer could change the game in a good way.
I run a lot of m+ and I still don’t outright hate the timer, but I think there needs to be more diversity, and I think that the game simply puts too much empehsis on m+ due to how rewarding it is. When people ask me how I get geared quickly, I always say m+. It’s like the only content you can just run over and over again and get good gear just for completion.
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That just means the ragnaros player wastes all the lives by feeding kills unfortunately.
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That’s fine. The people who would avoid players based on realm already do that. It’s a group effort, it’s okay if someone being a total failure messes up the run.
Fair enough, I can say I wasn’t a fan in the original thread but I understand where you’re coming from. You do have a point in that it does appear to be most efficient way of gearing.
@Vento: fair enough, cool idea.
I mean, with a timer, that ragnaros player can deal just as much damage to the team by feeding anyway. I think a pool of lives instead of a timer would be good for the game.
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I am also thinking it may be time to get rid of raid lockouts or put some sort of system in place to scale them like m+.
I enjoy raiding more than I do m+. For holy priest m+ and raiding are too completely different play-styles with different rotations, stat priority’s, etc. I want to raid, but I get most of my raid gear from m+, which seems odd.
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Agreed. My favorite part of being like a warlock was getting to enslave demons and do a form of CC that also is OP to use. Or getting to spellsteal incredible buffs for myself as a mage.
I honestly don’t think classes were homogenized as people said they were back in MoP. Like I just miss being able to give out some spellcasting buff to a friend to buff both our damage instead of blindly casting a raidwide buff. Or having two rogues make an agreement to both tricks each other. You know… actual TEAMWORK in the game that involved being social.
Nowadays every class is just boring to play you all do the same thing. Damage/tank/heal (do your role), groupwide buff if you got it, aoe whenever needed. And while playing alone you feel pretty naked with the buffs that were stripped from your character in fear of so called “homogenization”.
And now like the OP says they basically can’t experiment with any fun or unique things classes used to be able to do in fear that it would break the stale “balanced” endgame of M+ speedruns. Something that I think would be very easy to solve if we stopped making them speedruns and just made it challenging to even finish in the first place.
I can always beat a m15+ with a suboptimal group if we put in the effort and all have the willingness to stay to the end. But not the time limit. Beating it isn’t a cakewalk. But all people care about are optimized time limits.
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Ya because not being able to do a dungeon because X class doesn’t have X ability is better…
Leave mythic+ alone. It is the only game mode worth playing anymore.
Yes. This being said, I believe that Mythic + has been a positive addition and should be kept.
What Blizzard needs to do is create more Mega Dungeons that have a high emphasis on role play value. Examples of this are as follows:
- Healers can heal NPC allies throughout the dungeon that can assist during the dungeon.
- Uncharged Portals can be accessed by Mages and Warlocks to skip portions of the dungeon or access new rooms.
- Rogues can pick pocket keys to contraptions and doors, pick lock doors and open special chests.
- Frost mages and Druids can erect barriers of ice and thorns in some areas to reduce NPC reinforcements.
- Warriors can punch down weaker walls, Intimidate or rally soldiers.
- Etc, Etc - These are Ideas I came up with as I write. Blizzard can create dynamic systems like this that add value to different classes with far more though.
These dungeons would be slower, have more rewards per section and would encourage progressive game play. They would put a high emphasis on crowd control, etc.
I feel this would be a good contrast mode to high speed and high intensity mythic +.
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Maybe so. But blizzard should add enough alternatives in each scenario / dungeon that different classes are viable in different ways. The flavor is in the approach to the dungeon. At the same time, parts of these can be randomized as not to favor specific classes at the ‘FOTM’