The stalemate back and forth IS just gameplay, it’s not any indication of when the warfront ended or when the night elves took back Darkshore since there is no mention of it. The only time we ever find out who won is from that randomly asked question at Blizzcon, we never find out when though.
Maybe, or it could just be that all the night elves in Boralus have the black eyes and they wanted the broadcast text to be in the main hub. But them being there isn’t really the point, the main question is why would Tyrande not be there to kill Sylvanas? That makes no sense unless she was still fighting in Darkshore or Ashenvale or Blizzard thought 8.1 was their actual revenge and never planned anything else for the night elves after that.
Yes, and without Malfurion the night elves are shown to be pretty helpless. It’s a shame too that Tyrande needed a power up to fight the horde in Darkshore and needed Malfurion’s help to fight Nathanos because it’s again something that is trying to diminish her. Is killing a Valk really worth needing that power up and Malfurion’s help? Because we know the night elves can’t do anything without him.
the NE stopped the horde cold at the river (dont remember the name) and it required the horde to use an azerite superweapon to break it.
the NE were vastly outnumbered, and even then inflicted more damage on the horde than vice versa.
the horde had to retreat back to Zoram to regroup and find a way to break the NE defenses (which is where suarfang scaling the felwood mountains came into play
the NE managed to stage a fierce resistance at falfarren river
the NE again forced the horde into a stalemate at wildbend river which was broken by suarfangs surprise attack from the mountain.
Honestly i do not know how anyone can make the argument that the NE are weak with a straight face. They are basically perfect. They have some of the most powerful priests, hunters, warriors, rogues, mages, druids, and demon hunters in wow. I mean, they only faced a legion invasion and an alqir invasion basically by themselves, defeated ragnaros, defeated the legion a second time, and defeated a corrupted aspect.
If the NE are weak, then all of the other playable races are critters by comparison.
dude relax. Tyrande isn’t dying. she’s gonna become the main Nightwarrior to bind all the others that weren’t able to. That includes another race we don’t know about yet too. Elune is praised beyond our world and we will see a lot of weird stuff. You’re welcome.
The river was only a problem because the night elves burned the bridges (I don’t know why this part won’t let me put it in quote):
"My lord, they burned the bridges,” rasped one of the Forsaken scouts. She had a fresh scar across her armor, but the remnants of her flesh seemed untouched. “We think they burned all of them.” Saurfang grunted. The Falfarren River was not terribly deep or wide, but recent rains had left it swollen. “Set up the siege engines close to the river. Fire everything we can. Force the elves to stay under cover. And keep looking to see if they missed something. Any bridge will do. A big log. Something.”
Again going back to what I was saying about the night elves having the advantage here because of the terrain and how difficult it is to maneuver in a forest. Which is also stated in a good war:
This is the defender’s advantage I was mentioning and was predicted right at the start, obviously the night elves will have an advantage in the large forest with knowledge of the terrain and it was going to be harder to move an army through there. They were going to lose, the only thing they could do is try to slow the horde down.
The night elves put up a good fight in the book, but they were predictably destroyed even with home field advantage, the only thing that really stopped them was the wisp wall.
You cannot dismiss the defenders advantage and how difficult it is to move large forces through a forest, the writer obviously did not dismiss this clear advantage. If it was somewhere else the night elves would have been destroyed quickly.
Then they obviously lost everything and then with the horde forces split in 8.1 all over the world, they were too weak and needed the night warrior power up to fight the forces that were still there:
And since we didn’t find out when, it could have been as early as after the first Alliance turn at the warfront, as there is no new lore states of the Darkshore after the Alliance world quests state.
And yes, as we discussed, one plausibility for why Tyrande was not at Orgrimmar could be because she was taking Ashenvale back. As we both said, we won’t know until Blizzard gives an answer.
And the Night Elves are not helpless without Malfurion. The Night Elves have been able to hold back forces from all the combined races of the Horde on Kalimdor without him since Classic, and especially notably during the Cataclysm, and they pulled their fair share of their weight during the War of the Thorns.
It is just that with Malfurion the Night Elves are unnecessarily stronger than the Horde.
Like the other Val’kyr not even being attackable during the questing scenario, the killing of the other Val’kyr was not an indicator of either Tyrande or Malfurion’s worth. It was simply an indicator of Blizzard’s poor choices in presentation.
The Night Elves indeed stop the Horde by burning bridges. But, technical note, it was not an Azerite weapon the Horde used to get passed this, just rather the Horde using mages to freeze the river so they could cross it again.
If anything, that you keep pointing this out just makes the Night Elves winning Darkshore back all the more impressive, if the Horde really had it so secure.
Yes, it could have been literally any time, or it could have been because of the treaty. I’m saying the fact that we don’t know when it happened is a problem, this is something a commoner would know in wow but for some reason the players with meta knowledge are left out of important information especially when it comes to the night elves.
And yes, we aren’t going to know until Blizzard tells us, but I have a feeling since it’s night elf related we aren’t going to know for sure.
The horde wasn’t attacking them since classic The night elves though couldn’t remove the warsong from Ashenvale so they have lost part of Ashenvale since Classic, it only got worse after Cata with the horde setting up a base above Astranaar and taking Silverwind.
They just had defenders advantage during WoT, but they weren’t going to stop the horde. The only thing they pulled that was unexpected was Malfurion just being so powerful before he got taken out by Sylvanas and Saurfang. Think if they weren’t in such a favored terrain? They got demolished in Azshara.
The night elves on their own are not much of a threat to the horde and usually get rolled over pretty quickly. Look at Wolfheart from cata, they couldn’t even fight orcs at night in the forest or they couldn’t even hear shredders, they were only lucky to get a message out of Ashenvale that was pretty much under the control of the horde so they could get all the alliance races to go there and help out, with deus varian and the worgen to save them.
Once you remove Malfurion, the night elves seem pretty helpless. But why did Malfurion need to be there for the Nathanos fight? That would have been an instance at least of Tyrande being able to do something on her own, but she just needs Malfurion’s help, which is the fate for all night elf victories.
Obviously that is again presentation, but why is Blizzard presenting it that way? Why are they doing things like this to the night elf presentation over and over?
It shows the horde didn’t really see the night elves as a threat and didn’t reinforce it because it was under such control so they could move forces to other areas. As they say “The outposts there have yet to be reinforced with our main force”, literally controlling Darkshore with outposts. They obviously underestimated what the night elves had left, but it was clear the horde was no longer there in any kind of large force, they even went around to raise night elves to supplement their small numbers.
Terrain doesn’t matter. These are the same Night Elves that took the fight to Ragnaros in the Firelands itself and won. The reason that the Night Elves can literally grow a tree in the Firelands that won’t burn but Teldrassil lit up like a match from some catapult hits are purely this:
Blizzard writes who it wants to win or lose without any logic or merit.
Blizzard wanted the Avengers of Hyjal to kill Ragnaros, so that’s what happened. Blizzard wanted Sylvanas to burn down Teldrassil, so that’s what happened. Blizzard wanted to make Undead Night Elves, so that’s what happened.
The Night Elves also cleared the Horde out from Astranaar in Cataclysm, and the Night Elves took back Silverwind in the background according to the War of the Thorn novels as well, even before getting all of Ashenvale to themselves after the original Siege of Orgrimmar.
And even in Wolfheart, the Night Elves were the ones that performed the ritual on Varian that let tame his rage and fight effectively in Ashenvale with the Worgen and become who we saw in Mists of Pandaria, which was the entire titular point of the novel.
Terrain mattered very much as stated in A Good War about Ashenvale which was the reason the night elves were able to slow the horde down at all:
And yes, blizzard will write who they want to win and that usually results in the night elves losing. They didn’t actually “write” the night elves winning darkshore for example, that’s just something outside the source material that they don’t think is important to mention.
Also the Avengers of Hyjal was also comprised of Tauren, they were mostly from the CC who we have seen over and over usually never fight for the night elves or try to defend nature when the horde is there to destroy it.
Yes, so why is it that Blizzard can’t show the night elves having a decent victory? Why is it the night elves who are always the punching bags? If the horde can burn Teldrassil from the beach, why can’t we even get text saying the night elves took Ashenvale back?
Night elves stopped Astranaar from burning in questing, they didn’t take out the new base that overlooked Astranaar though. We only find out they even had Ashenvale when they were losing it all in WoT, but you could have assumed as much after SoO because of the treaty where the night elves gave the horde Azshara to appease them (which obviously didn’t work out, but the horde still keeps Azshara). It was never actually said though prior to the WoT novella.
Yes, because the night elves needed someone to save them, and that was Varian and the worgen because they were too weak to really be much of a threat to the horde, this was with all the other races helping them in Ashenvale as well. Wolfheart was probably the worst ever portrayal of the night elves, showing how they could not even fight in Ashenvale at night and continually got ambushed and out maneuvered easily.
You just showed in the same quote why the terrain didn’t matter, as the primary factor that allowed the Horde to get anywhere at all during the War of the Thorns was because they outnumbered the Night Elves because they fell for Saurfang’s feint to send their armies away, specifically because the Horde would not be able to defeat them otherwise.
Blizzard prioritizing whatever latest idea they think is so cool that they came up with over the Night Elves also has no relevance to the strength of the Night Elves.
The Night Elves also did not give the Horde Azshara. Just let them use the lumber there. Though, yes, the Horde attacking any way is exactly why the Night Elves don’t trust the armistice now.
As far as the fighting in Ashenvale in Wolfheart, I put about as much stock into it as Blizzard puts into Maiev trying to kill Malfurion and Highborne in the same book: None at all. Blizzard tries to forget that book almost as much as it tries to forget Me’dan.
Wolfheart? That book thats descripted 50 sentinels are enough to hold the entire horde? The horde needed the magnatauren to break trought that defense line
In that quote terran was the only thing that let them slow down the horde army as much as they did in WoT. Without the natural layout of the land, the horde would have had no trouble against the night elves. The night elves were outnumbered, but again it goes back to defenders advantage where you need less people when you have good defenses, in this case natural defenses AND fighting at night.
And it would be nice to see them prioritize the night elves for once, instead of just using them as a tool to get beaten up. Why not show the night elves as a strong force or even mention them doing something, instead of just relying on Malfurion to do anything.
The horde is literally destroying Azshara and strip mining it to dust, they aren’t just using the lumber there even though that’s what Tyrande said she would let the horde do. But yes, the night elves ever trusting the horde again at this point would be stupid, because as history would show the horde is just going to ask for peace so they can build up their forces again so they can attack the night elves again when they feel like it.
It was the worst book they’ve ever done and the worst portrayal of the night elves, but that is just another terrible portrayal in a string of pretty much every night elf appearance since Cata.
The whole alliance was there except for Varian and the worgen who come later. The horde was just trying to bait Tyrande out and they took her out early on, then they kept feigning attacks so they would get grouped up more for the Magnatauren to destroy them…until Varian and the worgen show up to save them.
Wolfheart the book where the night elves were constantly getting ambushed…in ashenvale…at night. They barely got a message out to Tyrande and that was only because that orc didn’t finish off the night elf messenger. The book where goblin shredders could sneak up on them in ashenvale when they were listening very carefully to the large logging operation the horde had going on that went unnoticed. Yes, it was insanely bad.
Oky, but it was really really bad, i agree 1000% on this term, but it was not only for n11 bad. Look, if 50 Sentinels are able to hold off the entire Horde, how could the horde even dream to defeat the nightelf army in an 1 on 1
Look ingame ashenvale. The nightelfs and q few worgen and draenei push the entire horde offensive in cata back. And even after wot, the nightelf beat the horde back again
There is no lore statement to support this. Once again, the Night Elves had no problem fighting in the Firelands itself, where the land itself was against the Night Elves in every way possible.
I don’t think this is true, that would actually put the “do the night elves have ashenvale”. Anduin had dialogue for you to ask where Tyrande is:
Where is Tyrande? She… hasn’t responded to my missives since departing for Darkshore. I fear vengeance has consumed her.
I haven’t checked Ashenvale when you do that questline though but I couldn’t find a SS of this anywhere either.
That was the reason the horde were slowed down through Ashenvale, when they had regular fights with them it was not a problem. That’s why it was so easy to roll over them in Azshara or if they get out into the Barrens.
After the Cataclysm the Night Elves made it all the way up to Orgrimmar’s back gate through Azshara, and during BfA the Night Elves were able to sabotage the giant canon at Bilgewater Harbor. The Night Elves have not had difficulty fighting in Azshara because of terrain. Hell, even the Talrendis Ancient the Horde cut down in Cataclysm grew back by the time of the Legion invasion pre-expansion event.
The only reason the back gate existed in Azshara was because Garrosh had Org built through that mountain before cata. They had trouble fighting in Azshara because they have trouble fighting the horde anywhere outside of Ashenvale in A good War, but that was more desperate fighting where they ended up losing everything so they were being portrayed as a competent enemy for the first time in the book before being wiped out and losing everything.
The night elves were already in Azshara and then got pushed out of there and then lost tons of Ashenvale in horde questing before taking some of Ashenvale back in Alliance questing but losing more overall (plus no phasing because night elf questing isn’t worth it to blizzard).
Blizzard didn’t phase the Horde pushing the Night Elves out of Azshara, either. In fact, for the Legion invasion pre-expansion event in Azshara Blizzard just reused the Night Elf mobs already there and just leveled them up as if they had never been pushed out at all.