And we are talking about why it was justify for the Alliance what it did and use Theramore. The Horde have proven to be monstrous and have killed women and children.
No the only one to blame are people who restart conflict with the explicit goal of conquest. The world was in a relative state of peace. A peace Garrosh did not want and only cared about conquering as much land as her could.
This has been retconned somewhat as of Chronicles. The Horde had actually started mobilising an army and parking it right outside Ashenvale.
Which is no longer an ironclad lore source, as per Blizzard.
Again my dude, because you struggle to admit the alliance is ever wrong
JAINA TURNED HER CITY INTO A MILTIARY BASE and was using alliance resources and her own people to support the massive fort being built in Durotar
Which is her declaring war my guy
Because they would be able to easily transport all the tools/equipment and resources they need? Logistic dictate it would be easier to supply their army from the already built settlement of Theramore.
Jaina as of the Shattering was pro-peace, but she also willing to fight if the need arose. And it did arise because of the aggression of the Horde.
Nope, sorry. The moment Jaina allowed the Alliance to use her city as a military base she opened herself up to being a legitimate military target.
That’s how things work in the modern world too mind you. If you are using, say, a school or a hospital as a military HQ, it becomes a legitimate military target.
She made the mistake of allowing the Alliance to use her city, and sadly the citizens of Theramore paid the price for her foolishness.
Which is still the most recent lore we have, and while not ironclad, it was clear the Alliance had multiple issue with Horde aggression.
And you are not understanding that she did that to HELP HER ALLIES. She is a member of the ALLIANCE, a group that PROTECTS one another.
Again, that was never her issue with Garrosh. Her issue with Garrosh is him restarting a war for no reason aside for the desire for conquest and the brutality of his attack.
It will never be a “mistake” to help your friends fend off warmongers. If the situation was reversed, Thrall would have defended the trolls even though he had a non-aggression pact with Jaina.
We have two sources. A first person account by the people in the story. Or what the Titans think happened. I’ll be honest I’ll go with what the novel says.
Even if the retcon is canon, what you’re saying is the Horde mobilised an army and had them on a border that was later invaded by a neighbouring nation. The Horde didn’t strike first. It seems like if you’re concerned about an invasion you might… I dunno… mobilise troops and have them nearby?
And the Horde had plenty of legitimate gripes with the Alliance going into Cata as well according to the pre-xpac novel.
And I’ll go with the fifo method of lore, which has for the most part been how we have always gone with lore.
Any nation would be foolish not to react to having an army being mobilized right next to their border. The Horde was planning on attack and either the Alliance got attack first or attacked pre emptively to stop the Horde invasion.
They invaded them with what, hopes and dreams? Or troops?
That were in the area?
Wah wah wah, how did they get there?
They invaded with troops. Suffice to say at this point this is all ancient history. Garrosh is now dead and his soul is dust and the only thing people will remember him for is the pathetic strip of land in Northrend. He failed in his goal and all it did was make the Horde poorer for the effort.
You’re missing the point.
You keep trying to dodge around the fact that she made her city a military target. Her reasons for doing so are completely irrelevant. The moment she started allowing Alliance soldiers to use her city, she picked a side, and the moment she picked a side, she became a legitimate military target.
In fact, the only thing that Garrosh did wrong with respect to Theramore was using the mana-bomb.
That was, what is known in military terms as, a disproportionate use of force. Had Garrosh just attacked the city with his own forces and eliminated the military defenders there, razed the city, but left it in a state where it could eventually be rebuilt, then the attack would have been proportionate to the threat that Theramore posed to the Horde. But his use of the mana-bomb went beyond what is considered proportionate, and that ultimately was the issue with his assault on Theramore.
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It’s a declaration of war my guy
Read my lips, she had ALWAYS picked a side. She was always Alliance and while she did have a non-aggression pact with Thrall, it was with Thrall and not Garrosh. And even then she would always pick the Alliance.
This we can at least agreed and as I mentioned earlier Jaina did not have qualms about Garrosh making her city a target. What she had issue with is the fact Garrosh started another war and used a mana bomb.
That is the thing though. Garrosh was never going to win a “fair” fight. For the most part, the Alliance had managed to hold off the Horde.
The Horde had already declared war. It was justifiable counter to Horde aggression.
I would argue the Alliance striking first in Ashenvale kind of undermines the moral legitimacy of invading the Barrens because of the Horde in Ashenvale.
Nope, not until miraculously after the Cataclysm. Even during the book ‘The Shattering: A Prelude to Cataclysm’ she was pushing for peace between the Alliance and the Horde.
Sorry, but you’re just flat out wrong with this point. Every piece of lore involving Jaina and Alliance/Horde relations showed her as being neutral and trying to broker peace, and then the Cataclysm pre-patch hit and suddenly Theramore was an Alliance base and Theramore soldiers were all over the place, including Durotar, Northern Barrens and in Stonetalon.
Literally no lore justification was given for this change mind you. It just happened and folks assumed that it was because of Garrosh’s attack against the Night Elves that prompted Jaina turning Theramore into an Alliance base.
And you would be wrong. The Horde decided to start another war under Garrosh and they got exactly what they deserve for the effort. Nothing and now Garrosh is dead and hopefully forever gone.