I give up. Show me the truth

Community General Discussion
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Ok first off. I m a big fan of Sylvanas. I know she evil. I know all things she has done. I watched how in game she has changed and evolved and yet still kept the core of who she is. I know she killed the troops who were being over run. That was very bad. Beside that there is nothing else. Now if going to stick on this I will not respond.

That is why the whole story makes no sense at all. The painted a picture that she must be stopped and she is the core issue. Then you look at it and find these issues. Beside the war. Which the king can also stop. Not just her. Is he on board to stop it.

  1. Dev say you will find out who burned the tree near the end of this expansions. It can be found in four interviews. Then why is everyone saying it her. Care to explain this. Is there a new interview were this changed. Cause they explicitly said it not who you expect.

  2. Genn and the royal navy commander stared this war in legion. You can not attack a leader and expect nothing going to happen. In real world it does not work that way. It will send a message that it going to happen again. Especially when the king does nothing about it.

Then have a base right next to your capital. You can bet that would be a major concern. This was completely white wash. Why. It what lead up to the war. Thus, make the war totally justified. Make BFA at least have a core plot.

  1. Everyone says she evil and doing evil things in BFA. Where is this at? All can find is this. Let see alliance attacks traders who are neutral, a city that was neutral and kidnap a princess. Not going over the things they done beside this. let just say its a lot.

  2. Jiana, Lor’themar and Thalyssra freed the old god that is threaten this world. Then say that the war chief must be stop and only a rebellion’s is the way. Why? They are the one who released the evil on the world. Now its her fault. What kind of twisted logic is this.

  3. Baine was providing support and intelligence to alliance. Killed fellow horde to free a alliance person. He accused her of having no honor. What kind of honor goes behind the war chief back instead of talking directly to her. He said we should of been saving the world instead of fighting. Then does what he does. Not by talking to her or anything. Then developers and All war chief say he the best for horde. That is like saying benedict Arnold be good for America.

  4. Suarfang plots and works with alliance. He uses honor like a weapon. People say he the good guy. He makes her look like the good guy the way he plots.

  5. Then there is Thrall instead confronting Sylvanas. Kills some of hordes most dedicated warriors to free Baine. Why? What the motive behind this.

  6. The core seem no one seem to want to talk to her. These war chief rather kill there own and forgive alliance.

  7. The tree why use fire. That makes zero sense. Blight is more effective. There is no way beside the dragons to cure it and would end any return of the night elf to there home. Fire on the other hand they can return. A tree can recover from fire. This is just anther weird and make no sense part of bfa.

  8. There talk of her attacking Thunder bluff. That makes zero sense. She has several taurens as her close advisors. Why turn on them. Plus she has the people with her. That just alienate them. Have the writers just went off the brick road.

I than hear that she off on some mission or some thing or other. I pretty much played both side. I can not find anything showing show doing anything. Mostly she sending her pet or champion. While she stays near org. I have found anything she done in game or this expansion that is considered more evil than what she is. With the one thing of turning her troops into skeletons. I guess everyone wants them to be run over and killed. Now one thing personally I find evil is the blight and its use. Beside that I can not find anything.

I can and have found the alliance engage in some very shady behavior. Some how not being called out for it. In fact most what they have done can be considered evil. Attack neutral traders, killing them, burning their wagons and telling them they can not trade with. Attacking neutral city, killing king, priest and civilians and sacking it. Torture and brainwashing people. This is all considered evil. Somehow it considered good and everyone in game ignores it.

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I kinda tuned out after you were confused about who burned teldrassil.

there’s a cinematic about it and everything.

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Yeah, I had to go back and check the time stamp to see if this was necro’d or something. I’m also trying to figure out what “neutral” city was attacked.

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I assume he’s talking about siege of zuldazar?

the trolls were technically neutral at the time.

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Maybe, considering I can’t even tell who was the ones who was supposed to sack it. He makes it sound like Sylvanas did.
Edit: Never mind, I managed to keep my eyes from glazing over.

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I’m assuming you mean the Zandalari. I really don’t know how people have enough memory loss to think that they’re just some innocent trolls sitting on their island minding their own business. The Zandalari have declared war on both factions multiple times, and been our enemies for over a decade. The Alliance was perfectly within their rights to jail the princess, considering she was traveling with the prophet that invaded Pandaria and set off the whole Thunder King thing to begin with.

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  1. They lied.
    https://youtu.be/TVp7yLfnmrE?t=193

  2. Genn attacked Sylvanas after receiving intelligence that Sylvanas was up to no good due to captured intel from the Aszuna zone that happened canonically before Stormheim.

Additionally, this was revenge for Sylvanas destroying his kingdom, killing his Son, and forcing his people to become refugees.

  1. The Alliance did not attack a Neutral City. During Mists of Pandaria the Zandalari Empire united the Trolls and declared War on the Horde and the Alliance, and attempted to recover their ancient allies the Mogu and restore the Thunder King. Talanji and Zul were captured during this conflict, and freed by the Horde hoping the Zandalari would then choose to help the Horde fight he Alliance.

No peace was ever negotiated and the attack on Dazar’alor is merely a continuation of the Zandalari aggression that happened in MoP, as it was not economical to attack them previously and the Alliance has no choice now that the Horde is courting their favor. I do find it odd that the King was so concerned about his Daughter languishing in an Alliance prison next to Hogger for 7 years that he sent no army or diplomats to recover Her.

  1. Jaina, Lor’themar and Thalyssra were lured into Azshara/N’zoth’s trap as they pursued Nathanos who was sent there on a mission from Sylvanas. It was the only way out of the trap.

  2. Baine and Anduin are friends and have been for many years. Baine has never liked attacking the Alliance though he has previously always done his duty as he saw it when called and when the Horde needed him.

  3. Saurfang is an old bitter man(orc) who feels he should have died many years ago and is haunted by the terrible sins he committed. (Slaughtering Draenei children at Karabor, and killing untold humans at the first battle for Stormwind). He’s also lost everything that keeps him grounded in the real world with the death of his Son at the hands of the Lich King. All he desires is a Warrior’s death, and the conflict before him is an ugly all out war that has no honor, and since the Horde’s enemies are not stooping to the level of Sylvanas, the only way to redeem himself in his eyes is to fight against the madness he saw himself help.

  4. Because Sylvanas sent assassins after him and he does not wish to see the mistake he made with Garrosh happen again, and the Horde he built get torn apart.

  5. Nobody wants to talk to the psychotic mentally unhinged elf who is known for murdering people who help her (Garithos), associating with Dreadlords (Varimathras) plague bombing entire armies (Wrathgate), and towns (Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Southshore), who randomly decides on genocide to get revenge for being pitied (above cinematic), who has no qualms about killing Her own troops (Lordaeron), and who sends assassins after people who are on another planet (Thrall)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umAgdVTBae0

Help me out here, but I don’t know why anyone would not want to talk to someone like that.

  1. Because see above, she’s crazy.

  2. Because She hates Baine. Baine is from Thunder Bluff, and therefore they think She’s going to destroy Thunder Bluff.

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Sylvanas must be stopped because she started this war. No one else wanted it. There were grudges between the factions, but everyone wanted to enjoy some peace to recover after the Legion. The war won’t end until she’s defeated because if left in power she’ll continue on until one or both of the factions is totally destroyed.

That they didn’t. Genn and Sylvanas both undertook those missions in secrecy so they wouldn’t interfere with everyone else fighting the demons. They weren’t representing their factions, it was a personal grudge. No one else even knew it was happening. Plus Sylvanas really doesn’t care about Genn very much.

Azshara did that. She conducted the ritual to use our Heart of Azeroth to open the lock. We just couldn’t stop her in time. As I mentioned, the faction war won’t end until Sylvanas is gone. And it needs to end immediately because we now know N’Zoth is coming for us. Higher priority.

And it actually kind of is Sylvanas’ fault too. She was in possession of Xal’atath’s dagger, controlled by N’Zoth. She sent the Horde fleet to Nazjatar knowing full well what was going to happen. We still don’t know the extent of this, but she and Nathanos are partially accountable to N’Zoth’s release.

He is guilty of treason, no denying that. It’s a debate of do you follow the law or do follow doing what’s right. He chose his conscience instead. And no he can’t talk to her. Sylvanas would just do it anyways and find anther excuse to arrest him. She’s already shown a willingness to assassinate anyone who is a threat to her, Horde leaders included.

Again same thing. Saurfang can’t blindly follow a leader he doesn’t support. The Horde is at a crossroads with different ideologies and leadership. In Saurfang’s view the Alliance aren’t the enemy destroying his people, though he doesn’t trust them much either. Sylvanas is because she’s the root cause of all of it.

The same goes for Thrall too. He built the Horde to be a refuge for the outcasted members so they could band together and survive. Not to be the second coming of the Scourge.

Safe to say most of the tauren turned against her the moment she imprisoned Baine. Between their Chieftain and Sylvanas they’ll pretty certainly go with their own leader. The blood elves will follow Lor’themar who also openly rebels now too, same for Thalyssra.

She’s already alienating her allies. It’s totally ok to like Sylvanas, but she is actively ruining the Horde.

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Well…actually…

Flashback

Worgen: “Genn, should you be smoking that pipe inside the tree? What if it catches alight?”

Genn: “Ah, bollocks! It’s just a bit of kip! Wot’s the worst that could happen?” throws match over shoulder

Twelve minutes later

Worgen are standing together watching the tree burn

Worgen: “Oh we’re buggered up the backside iffin them Nelves learn it was you that burned down the tree, Genn!”

Genn: “Relax, you! Am I not your leader? I’ll handle this good and proper.”

Genn throws a bow to the ground

Genn: “Oi! Tyrande! We found a bow near the trunk! I reckon this was ol’ Sylvy’s work, for true!”

Flashback over

Yeah…sorry.

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SI7 covered up what really happened and created a cover story to justify waging war on the horde the truth is Nomi burned down the city i mean Night elves NEVER should’ve left him alone in their kitchen

because of them not keeping an eye on him we lost the entire Keebler cookie factory so now how are we supposed to get our shipments of fudge stripes?

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Sorry he is leader of a fraction. He attack the leader of the horde. Soft balling still does not help. Saying she started is basically giving him a free pass. He did it like you said and also he had help from that alliance navy. Not just him. If him maybe. But there was more involved. he basically started the war. He should not be given a free pass because she involved.

Now when you have some one who attack you and on you back door. yeah. that pretty much will end in a fight. That why BFA started.

The rest is like most poster above. Based on personal opinion. The problem with it. If you go to Thunder bluff or silver moon they saying all hail the war chief not their war chief. But her.

How does she know this would happen. See this is my main problem. Every post include ones here are just made up. There no supporting evidence in game to support anything that being said. How do you personal know this. The horde said said it was a trap. That no one saw coming. nathanos is going further away from the are deeper into the sea.

The tree burning dev said you will not know till end. Everyone says it her. Ignore everything else. it same thing over and over. That why I get confused. No one will admit facts. They blame her and excuse everyone else. when it clearly all involved have had more involved in bfa than her. She did not even get the dagger till champion gave it to her.

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I think some people tend to forget that Zul the Prophet was behind so much rot on Pandaria. So yeah, that’s plenty of reasons for BOTH sides not to trust him. Since the Thunder King caused issues for everyone.

Also bad was how Zul didn’t even react to the characters presence, as if they didn’t cause him so much problems back on Pandaria.

It’s like they completely FORGOT about that entire storyline on the Horde side.

The horde story is still fresh in my mind as I recently dinged 120 on my horde. But yeah, Zul was completely ok with us helping him out on quests. Never once treating us as anything but “the speaker for the horde”.

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It’s a single line easily missed in the cinematic. When things start happening, there is a comment about “you know where we are.”

They also seemed PLEASED about the destruction. IE “the alliance fleet has been crushed!”

So yeah, they knew something about what was going to happen at Nazjatar, even if they weren’t informed of the exacts.

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Despite other posters pointing out the cinematic where she quite clear screams “Burn it!”, you are still confused… or just a troll?

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Yes, but we saw her inner motivations for BfA during Before the Storm. Not once did she think “I’m doing this to get back at Genn for foiling me in Stormheim.” Her goal from the outset was to destroy Stormwind because she believes the Alliance as a whole will eventually attack the Horde.

When azerite came into play she had to fast track her plans before the Alliance mastered it first. Again focused on the larger problem, not a small rivalry and setback.

As for Nazjatar, Nathanos said he had a secret mission the Warchief gave him. Not a soul knew what it was besides him. Then he set sail holding an Old God controlled dagger and led both fleets directly to Nazjatar. The dagger was guiding them there.

Nathanos wasn’t surprised either when the sea opened up. Again we don’t know the full extent of what N’Zoth told them would happen, but they were aware of Azshara’s trap at the very least.

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This hurt to read, but I’m going to do my best to answer.

I’m sorry, where were you? We literally know it was Sylvanas, there was even a cutscene:

Originally, Legion was supposed to be done in a specific order. The reason the crash seemed so random in Stormhein was because Azsuna was supposed to be first, and it’s there the Alliance player discovers a missive detailing Sylvanas’ plan with Eyir in Stormhein. Sadly they opted to let people choose, so this quest lost a lot of shock value, but Greymane took it upon himself to attack the Horde to stop this.

She killed her own troops in the Battle of Lordaeron, she butchered her own civilians in the meeting of Arathi (in the book), she ordered an attack on an innocent Kul’tiran village not even part of the war, she released Lady Ashvane from prison who ended up joining Azshara, and she nearly broke the Forsaken creed of free will. She has no care for the Horde or even the Forsaken; everyone is just a meat shield to keep her from Super Hell.

Azshara is a master manipulator. If you want to blame someone, blame the idiot Diamond Dwarf who essentially went out and made the Dragon Soul 2.0 with our Heart of Azeroth. Not to mention if you watch the cutscene leading into 8.2:

You’ll notice Nathanos looks pleased and not at all surprised by Azshara’s attack. Considering Sylvanas last had Xal’atath, and he had it then, it’s clear that they expected and even planned for this. Sylvanas was likely hoping to kill both Horde and Alliance there beneath the sea, that way she didn’t have to worry. And my guess is since we don’t know what her deal with Helya was, she’s now working with Azshara. If it turns out she’s doing all of this to protect Azeroth (killing people and all that) I’m going to vomit.

Baine was the emissary for the Zandalari up until Sylvanas tried to force a newly risen Forsaken to be subservient. He finally stepped up because hey, the Tauren have an invested interest in keeping the Forsaken on track because they’re the ones that advocated for them to join the Horde. Sylvanas in this instance is showing exactly why the Alliance has every right to revile the Forsaken. And talking to Sylvanas? Serious? I mean, if you want to be led out to the fields to look at the flowers while her Dark Rangers aim at your back. She has no honor, she fights dirty to win. That’s it. She doesn’t care if she’s the only one left after she wins, she doesn’t fight for anyone.

He didn’t directly plot with the Alliance until members of the Alliance chose to save a member of the Horde from the Lich Queen’s lackey. Once they rescued Baine together, of course he’s planning with the Alliance. The Horde is becoming the Scourge, and he wants to save his family. That’s noble as far as I’m concerned. Sylvanas is killing the Horde, giving the Alliance plenty of reasons to hate us. We have no reason to hate them.

Thrall was attacked by two of Sylvanas’ assassins while being completely separated from the Horde, and you expect him to go talk to her? “Hey, Sylvie. I don’t think you meant it, but…I had these two Forsaken attack me for no reason. What’s up with that?”

“Oh nothing, nothing at all.”

“What a silly scamp, That Sylvanas. Looks like all is well!”

He’d be written as an idiot for doing that.

The last person who did something she didn’t like, he disappeared into a dungeon until rescued in Legion. She’s got a great track record of not being approachable.

Weird…random topic for the sake of having another point? What?

Which Tauren are close to her as advisors, care to give me their names? Because she has a few unnamed Tauren soldiers because of reasons doesn’t mean she has close advisors. “She has the people with her” was such a forced line from Lore’themar. I don’t see how she could, she hasn’t actually won anything in BfA. She’s lost more than Garrosh, and that’s impressive!

This is Blizzard promising to be morally grey. At least the Alliance gets some of that! Horde under Sylvanas is essentially blackest back:

You’re mostly just reaching here. You can like Sylvanas, but you can’t deny she’s been more evil than anyone else this expansion.

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So basically ignore the four interviews after that were the developers said you will know who really burned the tree. I am not confused. You pointing to one video and saying that it. What developer say afterwards does not count. I say you are trolling to get votes. that or ignoring the interviews were they have said you will not know who burned the tree till end of BFA.

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Yup, the zones were originally designed to start with Azsuna, then Valsharah, then Highmountain, then Stormheim, and finally Suramar.

If you consider the flow of the zones and various things, events in Legion make much more sense if you do the quests in that order.

EDIT: Brain fart on zone name! Corrected!

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Azsuna* :stuck_out_tongue:

But yeah, I remember playing through Legion and being a bit confused at the story telling. It felt like there was supposed to be a line but it took a bit for me to find that correct path. Yeah, Stormheim was last, and it makes the most sense why.

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Well, please explain the in game cinematic.

She clearly states as she looks around, “Burn it!” after Delaryn tells her that she can’t kill hope.

It’s kind of hard to twist things. She gave the order, they obeyed.