I forgot how boring Ret Paladin was in Classic WoW

[Lease-thalnos]

Old School Runescape is several times harder than Classic Wow

The best pvp players can get up to 10 actions per second if needed

[Dragtuslivz-alexstrasza (Dragtuslivz)]

So heal in raids or don’t raid. It’s a game. You play games to have fun. If the rotation for ret pally is boring to you, why are you playing it? If it isn’t, then whats the problem?

[Drak-rattlegore]

Where did I ever say ret is boring? I call it the worst dps spec in the game because it is literally the worst DPS spec in the game. I’m arguing with the idiots who think it’s an auto attack spec, because there is a great deal of nuance to optimized ret. The AP Sealtwisting playstyle is one of the hardest specs in Classic, imo.

I’m saying that there are 2 build paths for ret dps right now and that both are increibly focused and narrow. There is very, very little room for deviation if you want to contribute viable DPS to a raid.

Classic WoW, honest to god, has less player customization than Retail does on the gameplay side. In retail I could go for Crusade spec, Inquistion spec, opt in or out of Execution Sentince, selfless healer, etc, etc, etc. In Classic, I have the choice of a SP build useless outside of raids, or a very high micro AP build. Retail has more options for all pal specs.

None of the specs in Classic honestly have much deviation or many free points.

[Dragtuslivz-alexstrasza (Dragtuslivz)]

My post was to the OP about ret being boring and wasn’t really about raiding or viability of classes in them. I don’t even want to get in that fight.

[Puffywiggle-faerlina]

They do outside of raiding tbh. PvP is much more interesting imo. Theres so many things you can watch for and do. I think the overall difference is Retail becomes a mindless flow of 3 button rotations that really becomes automatic and feels no different than just “Frostbolt” its just your pressing 3 buttons to do frostbolts damage, but it isn’t thought provoking.

Vanillas priority system means different fights require vastly different things for your character to do. A Hunter I maybe going on rotation, I also need to accompany things like FD > Drinking on occasion, ill need to quell enrages on some fights, some fights ill need to kite and use a wide plethora of abilities, some fights ill need to remove aggro from the healer, some fights ill be able to do things like melee weaving during rotation. Its this priority system that makes things interesting imo as it mixes things up. Having said that there are absolutely classes that feel very bland to play, but for others its what they want.

TBH im not sure every class playing the same appeals to many people as theres a wide range of what people want out of a Class. Being a Yellow Warrior in Retail kind of kills my Paladin feels and makes me uninterested. That being said BC was the sweet spot and Wrath had some nice gameplay as well.

[Theloras-herod]

I see a bunch of people in this thread who only play their class the way someone else has told them to.

The joy of Paladin and really classic is rejecting this min/max philosophy. Change your spec. Play it different than seal/judge/seal. If your rotation is boring look for items/gear/professions that make it more interesting.

Stop living in your box or go play retail so your box has shiny decorations to help you believe you aren’t in one.

^^^this^^^

[Shaien-windseeker]

It’s very possible for ret to do less dps than tanks on bad pulls

Out of curiosity, what does the expression “bad pull” mean in this context?

[Doomguard-herod]

I see a bunch of people in this thread who only play their class the way someone else has told them to.

The joy of Paladin and really classic is rejecting this min/max philosophy. Change your spec. Play it different than seal/judge/seal. If your rotation is boring look for items/gear/professions that make it more interesting.

Stop living in your box or go play retail so your box has shiny decorations to help you believe you aren’t in one.

youll find min max is 10x worse in Classic than it is in retail

Reason being there was no attempt to balance classes and specs for any individual task. Its why the highest Rets are doing 550 dps and the highest warriors are 2600.

the only difference is in Vanilla it was not mainstream the idea of min maxing giving you the illusion “this unused spec is good” but take a good look at how classic is turning out right now, look at the divide between classes and specs already as most are trying to get “pre-raid bis” something that was not common place back in vanilla. look at how much classes are being stacked unintentionally due to people knowing this time around War-Rog-Lock-Mage or bust for dps.

Now you could argue (as i have in the past) due to so many raids having stacked the “best” dps with a focus on pre-raid bis, you actually have more room than ever for Ret Paladins since Rag was going to go down either way whether you had 3 rets or a 37 man raid. Raids are better suited now than they were back in Vanilla to take some Rets,Moonkins,Melee Hunters etc etc due to all the dps requirements being more than covered by the Warriors, Rogues, Locks and Mages.

[Shonky-dathremar (Shonky)]

I see a bunch of people in this thread who only play their class the way someone else has told them to.

The joy of Paladin and really classic is rejecting this min/max philosophy. Change your spec. Play it different than seal/judge/seal. If your rotation is boring look for items/gear/professions that make it more interesting.

Thank you. So few people seem to get it. I know you won’t change the minds of the tryhard dullards, but it’s comforting to know that at least some people still know how to make their own fun.

[Drak-rattlegore]

Poor consume use, bad procs, a fight that doesnt favor your build, etc. Ret is incredibly swingy. If you use Command, that’s a layer of RNG. 2h crits hit like a mac truck, but arent reliable. Vengeance is a HUGE buff when it’s up. Sometimes bad RMG will kill your parse, even if you do absolutely nothing wrong. Any given auto attack could be 300 or 1800 based on procs.

AP ret sucks HARD at multitarget, and SP sucks HARD at single target unless you use MCPs.

[Puffywiggle-faerlina]

Mmm, Warriors aren’t pulling 2600 man rofl. They max out at 1400 with literally all buffs when the games over and no one cares. Hunters can pull 900-1050 and Warlocks sick about the same, but are considered better for some reason. Mages will generally also sit around this mark up to 1100-1200 but the ONE ignite Mage can pull some crazy numbers, but thats because his essentially taking everyone elses DPS.

[Doomguard-herod]

if you want to count the closest fight to patchwork right now in Magmadar

Warriors are already pulling 1300-1500 and not in BiS

though this is due to really short fights (which is a trend that wont end in Classic) and is the only fight that doesnt impede a warrior dps at all.

This is also due to the biggest dps warrior limitation (threat) being basically removed by “tanks” in full dps gear and spec basically.

[Gnixie-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Interesting idea.

[Puffywiggle-faerlina]

1500 DPS Warriors in MC with subpar gear? Link me to this man I have no idea what you are basing that on.

[Vraidin-stormrage]

I respect that classic RPG mindset, but that doesn’t actually work for two reasons.

1. It doesn’t matter where you put your talent points. That is how the class plays. There is no changing that.

2. If you want to do actual end game content, people will expect you to play min/max builds to get the most out of your character.

[Dragtuslivz-alexstrasza (Dragtuslivz)]

It doesn’t matter where you put your talent points. That is how the class plays. There is no changing that.

Not true. You could go holy/prot and do mass pulls on content you slightly over level. Does ret play like that? Sure. I enjoy it. Plenty of ways to change your game play as a paladin though.

If you want to do actual end game content, people will expect you to play min/max builds to get the most out of your character.

Also not true. I haven’t had a min/max spec once and iv’e done every raid lockout since i hit level 58 and haven’t had trouble finding groups at all. I’m tank spec with some in holy right now and iv’e been healing raids just fine.

[Valinor-sulfuras]

Try afk autoshot on a hunter.

[Tylaw-kromcrush]

That’s because the ret paladin is a pure support class, they do more things than simple minded dps classes.

[Holylied-old-blanchy]

Theres no real complexity in any rotations, paladin rotation just has the added benefit of being able to get up and get a drink or go to the bathroom mid combat

[Furyousgeorg-fairbanks]

You should try out warrior tanking for maximum fun.