Just to be clear, you’re saying that the 2000 extra mana isn’t useful, and as a separate point, the 1200 HP for DPS isn’t useful?
I somewhat agree with the former, but more mana is nice no matter what. Less wanding, more Smites/Holy Novas. Less autoing/afking, more Starfires/Wraths.
The latter I don’t really agree with at all. The extra 1200 HP is, in effect, an extra 1200 damage the person can take before they need healing. The best way to improve speed and efficiency, if you care about such things, is to minimize the healing needed during fights and to heal between fights instead when there’s no targets for the healers to damage.
There’s two camps of logical thought around stacking world buffs and consuming for current raid content.
One is yours, that it’s fine to try and take pride in trying.
The other is that it’s hugely detrimental to the open world and health of the game. I’m in the latter train of thought.
People spend hours stacking world buffs, hours in instanced PvE farming gold for their consumes, hours logged out preserving those buffs - so they can go into 40 man instanced PvE to earn gear. Mindlessly following BiS lists, carbon copies of avatars that all look the same - there’s no feeling of unique character identity to it.
More importantly, on PvP servers, it heavily affects the minority faction by creating an even more oppressive open world for those who do want to actively play the other 90% of the game. Player interaction between guilds stops, forming any kind of tribal bonds is hindered because nobody’s playing with each other, attrition rates of smaller guilds sky rockets.
If you’re on a PvE server it’s fine, more power to you.
funny. i bet there are alot of guilds that could use alot more “try hards” to actually clear the content.
fact is the consumes and world buffs save time . and when you x that by 40 people its alot of time.
thats funny that people who want to put in min effort to get max rewards chiming in stupid stuff cause they cant understand people wanting to constantly improve.
keep on skating by though . you are a real asset to your raid.
When you factor in the time spent to farm gold for those consumes, time spent gathering the world buffs, and time spent logged out preserving those buffs - this simply isn’t true. You spend way more time out of the open world doing these things to raid, which is another part of the game that isn’t in open world. It’s demonstrably bad for the social aspects of the game.
getting the worldbuffs and the consumes take about 15 mins for a well oiled guild that has a well ran guild bank and is mostly done while doing multiple other things they naturally do in game.
15 mins might be about 15-20 peoples worth of being buffed to the nines and you are still saving 20-25 other peoples worth of time.
also wanted to add having titans on melee cuts down the accidental deaths saving those people from raiding without buffs.
That’s fine for the large guilds, but it’s simply not the case for the casual guilds trying to model themselves after large guilds they see thriving.
I’d argue that those smaller guilds are infinitely more important to server health, casuals are the backbone of a servers economy.
These larger guilds, in my experience, that can organize enough players to stack world buffs that fast - do so in preparation for their raid way in advance, like they specifically target the easiest times to get them - which are Sundays or Mondays then stay logged out until Tuesday evening or Wednesday evening to run the next lockout.
All of those players, especially on a PvP server, help to contribute to faction imbalance in open world - I think they’d be way more useful PvPing and out in open world doing their thing to keep the social aspect of the game alive and help their faction.
Again my perspective is from PvP servers, I have no idea what it looks like on PvE servers.
I GM’d a guild that ran BWL in about 1 hour 30 minutes and MC in 45 minutes with 28 players, 6 healers. Mostly 99 parsers, at one point I was something like world’s top 50 Rag and world’s top 50 Onyxia without really ever making an honest attempt at parsing.
I am now in a guild with North, the highest parsing mage NA.
I’m not going to write an essay about why world buff stacking and full consuming for the current content is bad for the game - but it is the conclusion we came to after doing the sweaty stuff.
It helps to have a few tanks use flask of the titans, especially if your tanks are dual wielding. But it’s definitely not worth the whole raid flasking for BWL. Rogues don’t really ever have to flask.
Were you a rogue? Because yeah, rogues are brain dead easy to raid as compared to tanks or healers.
I genuinely feel it is bad for the game, you can see some of my above responses on why that is - speaking strictly from a PvP and open world/server health perspective.
naw some do the log out thing early but alot of them do it the day of with the reset shenanigans .
what people dont get when alot of these guilds do this is they are playing for speed clears which is a whole nother game.
a good amount of guilds are only passing this content because they have the buffs or else they would be having a long long raid night cause someone wiped the raid at vael or cant get past the first boss in bwl cause of dps checks.
there are quite a few guilds that can do it without and thankfully im in one but there have been nights were for some reason or another we wiped on vael cause someone was too eager on going ham on dps and the nights were long when that happened.
we still downed it but it was a long slog.
for sanity sake we get at least ony buff and pop consumes for the “harder” fights.
it is good to power through content. you feel accomplished.
when you slog through it weighs you down especially when last week you ate nefs lunch and called him a sissy.
I think it’s perfectly fine to sweat over the content, and is even the natural progression of how people enjoy a game, after they’ve experienced the game and deemed it worth that time.
Brute forcing your way through content by stacking world buffs sets fresh players up for failure in terms of personal accountability mechanics in harder raid content moving forward.
Encouraging a culture of “all or nothing” in a game like Classic is setting people up for major burn out in AQ40 when the raid time investment becomes way more intense.
I just think it’s a shame so many fresh players have taken the stance of “this is how it’s done because it’s what the most successful players I see do”. A lot of these people do not understand that the successful players do it because they’ve already been through the content and fallen in love with the game for completely different reasons.
Could honestly go back and forth on this all day, just my opinion on it man. You do you.