I. I’ve never made it a secret
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People whine on their faction appropriate avatars all the time.
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Excess frowning creates age lines… people need to loosen up more.
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Baine hardly shows up in the game at all till BfA, and most of his accomplishments exist almost solely in the external reading material you refuse to count. He is also far younger than Thrall, and thrust into a leadership position through the orchestrated death of his Father … by a woman who went on a murder spree with her Tauren Faction. Of course Baine has less accomplishments! Most of his early leadership canonically was him just trying to put the pieces back together of the Tauren people. Its shocking that he had any time at all to worry about the Horde/Alliance.
This is also not really relevant, because it does not undervalue Thrall’s massive betrayal of his closest compansion and the Horde … to dick around till his problem he created became so unhinged he had to come back. Again, moving goalposts. And no, Thrall was not an active member of the Horde during Cata and MoP. He only returned when the Darkspear rebellion hit full swing.
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Okay correction to a previous point I made regarding the Mok’gorah between garrosh and Cairne, Cairne indeed was the one who challenged him but Garrosh was the one who insisted upon traditional Mok’gorah to the death instead of the supposed “new” one that allowed one to concede and live.
Yah Thrall literally promised he’d only be gone for a few months, yet was gone for much longer.
Take a look at yonder officially canon timeline. Each expansion is what, one year? So, yes. Thrall was gone for all of Cataclysm, until the end of MoP. Two yearsish.
Right, he forced a living bomb into the drivers seat of the Horde and then refused to come back to deal with it until it had already exploded in everyone’s faces.
This is coming from someone who really does like Thrall and wants him to get back to his WC3 Form, but its amazing that he gets so much of a pass. When the guy who probably was around the equivalent of 20-ish (considering his size and being called a child in WC3) will never let down his lack of “raging against the Alliance” … right after a rebellion murdered his father; slaughtered his people; and left the Tauren ideologically scattered. Also, fun note, but apparently before he met Thrall Cairne was pretty averse to conflict as well. WC3’s events made him the BA he was. He apparently did not have that Peace/Force perfect balance he had until then.
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Thrall was a good warchief and plenty of examples of him telling the alliance to F off while Baine will endorse a Dwarf drilling camp at Mulgore and Goblins exploit nature zones because he’s a coward that let anyone walks over him.
He and Anduin are a danger as leaders because they’ll let someone cunning and evil to accumulate power and will end up dethroned and powerless to fight back while the new party starts their evil plot.
This should spoke a lot about Blizzard morale compass. Man I can’t wait to see Sylvanas justified and returning to Azeroth as a Hero -.-
Man just give the Horde the right spotlight with the Earthen Ring and showing off a good heroic barbarian story.
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Got any evidence of that or is that just the same tired BS people claim because so much of Baine’s content was cut or altered from Cata? Because as far as I’m aware, he was only ever allowed an opinion on Taraujo, and wasn’t really allowed much input on anything else Faction War related until MoP. Where he fell in line with the Garrosh Campaign, until Garrosh deliberately turned Theramore into a Horde meatgrinder.
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I think he’s referring to the Bael’dun Digsite within Mulgore. Baine warned the dwarves that their methods were hurting the spirits of the Earth, however instead of trying to force them out, he just sent adventures to destroy their tools.
However the dwarves refused to change their ways and were slaughtered for their efforts when enraged earth elementals rose up and killed all them in Cataclysm.
As for the goblin thing… I’m not sure what that’s referred to.
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He also didn’t send forces to kick out the Bael Modan dwarves, who massacred a peaceful village, built a base over their bodies, and then proceeded to firebomb another village to death.
Because, you know, the alliance are good guys.
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Baine in particular could really use a pro-Horde awesome moment where he goes out and does something positive For the Horde. Something that doesn’t involve him needing rescued either. The poor guy is going to turn into a peach if this goes on much longer.
I don’t begrudge him his friendship with Anduin but too long it’s been the case of where he’s sided more with Alliance than he has with Horde. He just needs something where he does something to support the tauren or the Horde in general or something that makes the Horde look awesome.
I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
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Didn’t this happen in Vanilla? I seem to recall the Stonespire/Bael Modan conflict happened during Cairne’s tenor as Tauren leader. With a little bit of spillover into Cata, with the Dwarves having dug up something they shouldn’t have and the whole Fortress getting bombed? But by then I don’t recall any real advancement (or even relevance) to the Stonespire side the of things.
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The “Taurajo was a military target” doesn’t say anything to you? Even Vol’jin reacts surprised to Baine mistreating like that his people in Warcrimes and just shrugs off when Sylvanas mentions it
First thing, Garrosh just allowed Theramoore to gather a lot of troops so he could nuke more soldiers, It wasn’t a costly battle because a lot of these warriors later on cheered on Garry and most ironic his plan was counting in Baine to warn Jaina about the attack.
He is pretty much just the voice that says “Touching a human is a sin” and it gets in evidence when he doesn’t care about Saurfang mobilizing troops to Ashenvale but goes angry and killing machine mode when Sylvanas resurrects and torture Derek because
A) He is a human and not dirt like everyone else in his mind
B) Brother of Jaina
He has the same problem with Calia as Golden only wrote them interacting with the Alliance cast rather than talking and get to know with the Horde one.
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It was a Horde meatgrinder. He deliberately stalled out his forces to ensure that Theramore could reinforce, then sent in his ground troops to draw attention to the walls of the city and away from the encroaching mana bomb. He turned Theramore into a blood soaked mess to ensure the Bomb could be most effective, when Baine was absolutely right. Had they just moved on the city immediately following Northwatch they would have steamrolled it. Its why both Baine and Jin were super pissed at him afterwards. The troops they lost because of his BS.
And screw the Derek Plan. Everything about it. It was garbage from the offset, that screamed of desperation. And now that we know what she was planning, it turned out to be exactly what I thought it was. An escalation tactic. Nothing else. If not for Baine being there Jaina would have obliterated Derek the moment his obvious undead butt showed up; which means at best he could have taken out Katherine and Tandred. Which would not have crippled Kul Tiras in any way, and would have silenced any remaining peacenicks left on the Alliance. Helping Sylvie get what she wanted … as big a death toll on BOTH sides as possible.
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I think Garrosh’s idea was to get more Alliance leadership killed because the Allaince had the bright idea to reinforce Theramore with elite troops and generals, but I fully agree that bombing it was dumb if they could have just run the bastards into the ocean and denied the Alliance the port with minimal casualties
Again he wasn’t because he fell at Garrosh’s plan and if he had stayed quiet or convinced Jaina to get out and return later to re-settle if he wanted pacific resolution.
Besides Theramoore was already attacking the Horde for years and Golden book just white-washed everything because Jaina can’t have tainted hands and even Taurajo needs to be Whitened
If he had a spine he would had told Saurfang how a bad idea was to invade Nelf land instead of wishing him good luck at his assault when they met at the Crossroad.
Stop trying to justify a guy that literally let everyone to walk on him. Cairne at least told Garrosh to F off and enough courage to challenge him at Mak’gora and almost killing him. The story is just a mess because Golden wants to paint him and Anduin having the right always even at the cost of said story
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Cairne died for it and left his people open to a rebellion by Magatha, who let her Grimtotem slaughter their way across Mulgore. It was a noble gesture dying for peace, but die is all he really did … and it denied the Horde and Tauren’s need of him later.
EDIT: Y’know what, I don’t know why I bother. I’m coming from a stance of “Baine’s character issues are mechanical, thus replacing him does no good as whoever you replace him with will be subject to the same plot-device burdens”. I also don’t think Baine is an unsalvageable character, and just like Thrall he’s just one riddled with problems. Problems that can at least become more tolerable with the right TLC and attention … and the settup for SLs could allow for that.
Baine needs 3 things: 1) Distance and independence from Anduin again; 2) The Balance his 100+ year old father eventually achieved, between peace & force; and 3) He needs a damned powerup. Well, in the current state of SLs we have Baine rescued and Anduin safely locked away; We have Baine’s weakness repeatedly shoved in his face, which is a good catalyst for growth; and we lastly have Huln Highmountain conveniently chilling in Ardenweald. Thats all 3.
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The invasion went fine, though. The efforts of a druidic demigod and a chosen one of a goddess merely slowed down the invasionary force. Everything would have probably gone as plan if not for Sylvanas going rogue.
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I mean in the sense of a pro pacifism leader, he doesn’t do much aside of meekly going along with the flow
It’s Baine Hate, you can’t reason with it, you can bring solid facts against it but it won’t matter, there is nothing you can do anything about it. Even if Baine did something good, that would anger the Baine Hate group more becuase that would make him look good. The best you can do is discuss it to people so that other people can see a different point of view or side of things.
I’ve never heard of “As Our Fathers Before Us” before, I didn’t even know Korialstrasz was dead this entire time until about a year ago. Sometimes wondering “whatever happened to that guy?” That’s a big problem on Blizzard’s part, important development NEEDS TO BE IN GAME! Books should be just added things. The reason I liked the Arthas Novel for WotLK, ironically I never read it to prove a point. You didn’t have to read it to get the important plots of the expansion or secret important character developments, it was just an added bonus. Now you have to read the books to get the plots of expansions, this is a huge downgrade from before.
While I do agree with you on Baine, he is salvageable, needs a lot of tuning, requires to be separated from the Alliance, and killing him off and replacing him with another Tauren is pointless as it WILL 100% BE ANOTHER BAINE. All that doesn’t matter to the huge fan base of the hatred of Baine. People want him dead BECAUSE HE IS Baine, regardless of the consequences. In people’s eyes he is forever stained and would do anything for his death, even the death of the Horde and/or WoW.
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