Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Are you familiar with the vrykul? Towering, brutish warriors from an ancient stock. Subtlety is not a value they hold in high regard.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Their legends speak of the [Aegis of Aggramar]. To claim it, one must undergo some kind of trial. One must be… worthy.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: The new catapults are faster and more powerful than ever before. I have our goblin allies to thank for that.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Truthfully, Stormheim holds another treasure. One that I will be pursuing by my own means.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I trust you are more than capable of handling whatever trials stand between you and the Aegis.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Nathanos has been training a new generation of rangers. They represent both our past, and our future.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I think often about our future, hero. My people cannot reproduce. Are we not destined, then, to wither away eventually?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: No. The Forsaken will never stop fighting.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Not while I reign. Not when there are still beings out there with the power to stop death.
Dread-Captain Tattersail says: News from Captain Dreadwake, my lady. They have found the temple.
Dread-Captain Tattersail says:The Oblivion has landed nearby. They are building fortifications now and will be ready to lay siege at your command.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Good. Send a bat - tell them we are leaving shortly.
The Horde is sent to get the whatever of Odyn. Sylvanas is specifically going off on her own for the Helya stuff.
Because changing protagonists into villains is a dick move. Even in non-interactive media like movies and books, 'the protagonist was the bad guy all along!" is really crappy (it works in horror, sometimes, but is godawful in traditional drama) But in interactive media like an MMO, it’s outright inexcusable.
However this is a different subject than what I was talking about, which was how Alliance figures who are written like villains still get to be the heroes of the story, simply because of their faction membership card.
if this is gonna require me to give a dissertation about protagonist vs. antagonist, the difference between protagonist and hero, antagonist and villain, and what an antihero is… I don’t have time for it. Google some stuff.
If I recall correctly, the worgen were even supposed to be the alliance’s forsaken-like race. Instead, everything got sanded down, Genn’s sympathy was maxed out, supposedly even his racist streak was fixed up (because now he doesn’t need it to continue to hate the horde), and he gets what are supposed to be heartwarming moments of him pseudo-adopting Anduin.
Sylvanas shows a sliver of having her own kind of growth and whoops, turns out she’s doing bad stuff and it’s a good thing she was stopped because look at her roasting babies alive now.
Right? Literal Orc Hitler as he was described, or Jaina … wow he was royally screwed no matter what he did by the looks of it. Also, really not helping your case here that you are justifying the leader of the victims of a massacre having to apologize for said massacre. Remember, the Alliance are always right … and the races of the Horde are always deserving of everything horrific that happens to them. Blizz writing in moral absolutes so much that Race is now analogous to virtue and morality.
Its that same vein as why its OK to slaughter all the Trolls for them trying to get their lands back; or why the Orcs alone need to get condemned for the genocide of the Draenei … when the Draenei doomed every single inhabitant of Draenor to death the moment they landed on the planet … and did nothing to actually prepare them for it. The Orcs having their own culture and faith used against them, and then subjected to a brutal plague … because they got caught in the crossfire of an Eradar intergalactic civil war? How evil can they get falling to “The Decievers” lies … and not dying a quiet statistic with their planet like they were supposed to.
She basically says " I can’t be bothered to help others, instead i’ll leave you to do that while I pursue my own interests". Thank god Genn gave her a good bollocking.
Could you make up your mind? None of the characters you list, except maybe maiev, started off as villains. None. Yet you apparently wanted them to be written as villains, for reasons, despite just now stating turning protagonists into villains is a dick move.
Also, the characters you speak of were only partially written as villains. Rather, they did bad things, but later regretted these actions and changed themselves. And generally, they first went through trauma to turn bad. Now you could of course argue that it’s unfair that the Alliance gets to have these kinds of characters, while if a Horde character turns bad they stay bad, and probably die down the line.
And i’d agree with that. It’s unfortunate that the writers keep treading the same tracks again and again, to no one’s benefit.
However, that doesn’t mean that Jaina is as villainous as you think she is. She could have, no doubt. But they choose to take her a different route. And i’m happy for that.
To say you are stretching the meaning of this word would be a grave understatement. You’re more melodramatic than Elesana.
I think he was a coward and an idiot, who gambled that Jaina’s wrath would be the lesser of two evils. Course, jaina and Vereesa should have aplogised for their actions, but so should he have as well. So I guess one of the three did it right.
I would much prefer that we weren’t. being in the right doesn’t actually feel that great with all the baggage it brings.
Not all of them. But the way the Forsaken have been written, they deserve far worse than they’ve gotten. Whether you think that is bad writing or not is up to you. Personally I think it is.
I agree the trolls have been written poorly. But things are finally looking up for them. Unlike the Worgen.
Where the hell were they gonna go? They crash landed after all. And no, they did not. They fully believed, and had good cause to believe, that they had escaped the Legion. And it took Kil’jaeden 200 years searching every nook and cranny to find them.
Not what i would call it. Civil war indicates both sides are fighting. One was trying to eradicate the other. I’d call that genocide instead. The Draenei were escaping genocide.
I don’t blame them for that. I blame the mfor everything that happened afterwards.
Them being tricked into imbibing in Fel (which ironically did cure the Blood Plague), turning them into a weapon for KJ to be used in his personal grudge against Velen? Because it wasn’t Sargaras who was hunting them across the stars … it was KJ having a Velen shaped stick up his butt. Resulting in the enslavement of their entire species, and the destruction of their planet?
Yeah … seems the Draenei sort of damned the Orcs no matter what they did. And didn’t even have the courtesy to give them a heads up. Sigh … but the Orcs are by default evil for not having the strength to do what the Draenei were never expected to. Fight and die with their world against a force they could never hope to beat. While simultaneously since the Draenei are by default good … its a good thing they didn’t do what the Orcs were expected to.
He was forced to Apologize in Dalaran at the beginning of Legion in order to ensure the Horde had access to the city so the faction could aid in the battle against the Legion…
So to the kirin tor? the ones the sun reavers screwed over almost three times causing several deaths including the death of the current head (at theramore)?
Id say he got a slap on the wrist for all the damage they caused.
Talking about the first and second war? Where you know the feel blood they imbibed instilled a insatiable blood lust that has to be sated, cause KJ didn’t really care what happened to the orcs after his plan succeeded but Sargeras saw use in them.
He caused nothing. He wasn’t behind the theft of the Divine Bell. He only found out moments before it was stolen by a fringe faction of Sunreavers; and then had the horrific choice to either betray Garrosh or Jaina. Which means he and his people were damned no matter what.
And didn’t Dalaran already throw neutrality to the wind when the Kirin Tor aided the Alliance in the battle of Theramore? If anything, the majority of the Sunreavers maintained their neutrality LONG after the Kirin Tor did. But were punished in their entirety for the actions of a few.
Regardless, I think this thread and the general of response of “LOL he deserved it” to a leader of the victims of a purge being forced to apologize for said purge is why there is no grey on the Alliance. And can never be. The Alliance playerbase would lose their absolute crap if Blizz didn’t bury anything that ever even fringed on grey under a an absolute mountain of that pearly white Moral Absolutism. And quite frankly Blizz knows it … which is why Anduin is the perfect rep for the Blues.
cairne almost let his people get wiped out by the centaurs because he was too weak to do anything and now baine is ever worst , under magatha leadership it would have never happened
Then have them take it out on the wildlife, or whatever. After they had crossed into Azeroth, they could have smashed the dark portal to rubble, and afterwards sent envoys to the different nations, telling them what happened to them. Hell, they could have forgotten to mention what they did to the Draenei, and simply talk about the legion and what they did to them.
No, but he kept it secret.
Not really. All the sunreavers were in Dalaran. Had he choosen to throw garrosh under the bus, Garrosh could at best have thrown them out of the Horde. What else could he have done? Try and stage an invasion on a floating city, defended by some of the best mages on Azeroth? Best of luck.
He was an absolute moron who made the worst of two choices. Did the sunreavers deserve to be purged and imprisoned? No. Did he make the worst decision possible? Yes.
Do you know I hate players like you? To you it’s not about good storytelling. You just want the Alliance to be as dirty as the Horde. Doesn’t matter if it’s crap writing, as long as both sides are equally muddy, you’re happy.
I think this discussion’s got too muddled in writer intent versus in-universe character views and it’s making things unnecessarily confusing as a result.
Cairne didn’t “almost let” his people get wiped out by the Centaur. It’s just that the centaur were more numerous than the Bloodhoof tribe, and so the ongoing war just kept going worse and worse for the Bloodhoof. the centaur presented a barrier between the Bloodhoof and any possible allies among the other Tauren of Kalimdor as well; so when the orcs arrived, Cairne basically had to recruit them to fight the Centaur on his behalf. By doing so, he saved his tribe and used that alliance with the orcs to leverage the Bloodhoof to the top of the (perhaps literal) Tauren totem pole.
But his son is a total schmuck, yeah.
Magatha is a K-Mart blue light special Gul’Dan. I’d like to see more of her, or any Tauren lore at all, but as leader? hahahah no, thanks, already had enough of that crap with Sylvanas thanks.
No, jaina asked him to leave before enforcing the purge, they couldve left peacefully without bloodshed but HIS pride didnt allow that and thats why the purge happened, he is partially to blame for what happened, “i didnt expect this to happen” is not an excuse he can employ, he was the leader of the sunreavers and he made his choice.
He apologized to the kirin tor not to the alliance, maybe my stance would be different, and i agree the alliance needs more grey, i wish WE were the ones that attacked first, i WISH genn burned the damn tree to deny sylvanas because this is all stale but nope, the only thing i get from your post is that you are salty aethas had to apologize, he is a snake and deserves everything that is happening to him and more, its a good story beat he is acknowledging responsability and it goes a long way to make a character relatable and liked, i know he got screwed over by a harpy after this, this changed how i saw aethas for the better.
No its not. Its about recognizing that in a story with two factions where one of them is completely untouchable and pure … there can be no nuance. The other faction will always be forced to pick up the antagonistic slack, and shoulder the burden of “Grey”. Which is made all that much darker by the fact they are forced to shoulder it completely alone.
The Alliance is kept pure. Flawless. Every action they commit that even fringes on grey anymore is buried under so many excuses or justifications that they’re proven right in the act; or handwaved away and forgotten … even by their victims. Its the reason that despite Varian declaring war on the Horde in WotLK, it was Garrosh who started it in Cata. Its the reason the attempted assassination of the Horde’s new Warchief was swept under a rug with a slap on the wrist to those behind it. Its the reason the Bilgewater attacked the Explorer’s League for absolutely no reason in Silithus (Cuz Goblins lol!) … so that the Alliance could have a cheap justification to slaughter Goblin civilians without it being and act of war. Its the reason that despite ALL of the aggressive acts from the Alliance leading up to the 4th War … it had to be the Horde that started it.
The Alliance is allowed the luxury of total Moral Absolutism in this story, and the only time its players hate that is when they either get called on it; or it prevents them from wiping out an entire player faction for THEIR satisfaction. The Alliance is a major reason the Horde has to be SO flawed, and SO “grey” … because the Blues aren’t allowed to be.
[Aegis of Aggramar]. To claim it, one must undergo some kind of trial. One must be… worthy.