I feel like frost could be easily made more fun

Classes Death Knight
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EDIT: From the perspective of a 2h frost dk

  1. make remorseless winter trigger our cleave rather than dnd, OR make dnd shadowfrost damage that follows us like remorseless winter.
  2. increase the range of remorseless winter and also make it look cooler
  3. get rid of the massive damage nerf on howling blast aoe for rime procs, that’ll bring our aoe up to speed imo. Why is it so heavily nerfed in the first place?
  4. here’s my most controversial idea, reduce the km damage of obliterate to 300% but raise the base damage by 100%.
  5. In tandem with 4 increase frost strike damage by some number, I think like 50%. The two 4 and 5 will make frost strike more fun to press because right now its not really fun to press at all.
    I just feel like we hit like a wet noodle outside of pillar of frost and 4 and 5 would make it more fun when we get less crits making pillar take longer to come off cd.
  6. Just raise the howling blast damage by some % because its a core ability that does jack all.
  7. UNHOLY CRUSADER SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY RUNE OPTION
    Like seriously why are we pretending that that there’s any other option for almost any spec… Easy fix: Let us attach 2 runeforges for 2h and stay the same for dw

I really want to emphasize #1, do one of those 2 things please. If we keep both though I feel like one of them, probably dnd should be off the gcd.

Anyways, I’ve been drinking. What do you guys think? I’m just rambling, but 1 4 and 5 are what I think would make our spec quite good, and 7 is like obviously what they should do at this point. It is honestly bizarre that we aren’t at 7 yet

ALSO SOUL REAPER SUCKS, PLEASE TAKE IT OFF THE GCD AND MAKE IT AN RP SPENDER IT DISRUPTS THE FLOW OF FROST TOO MUCH

Edit 2: I just feel like that is incredibly strange that the most important character, imo, in WoW was Arthas who is mostly a frost death knight spawned the most ignored class in the history of WoW. Like devs… why? Tbh all of the classes should be treated like the start class with how much money WoW has and continues to bring in. But of all the classes to straight up ignore, the Arthas class? Strange…

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No.

Yes.

Wonderful.

Because people complained that they wanted Obliterate to hit harder than everything else in the kit so it was adjusted down accordingly.

I’m not sure what this means. You want to nerf Frostreaper? Remove the guaranteed crit? What number are you currently going from to have KM Obliterate do 300% damage of a regular Obliterate?

Frost Strike and HB were gutted after Legion because people complained that Obliterate shouldn’t be overshadowed by them. That damage was put into Breath. Then people complained about that and weak Obliterates so they redistributed a ton of the damage profile into KM Obliterate so the spec could ramp with Pillar into big Obliterates.

So you get big Obliterates or you get core abilities that matter baseline, but you don’t get both. Unless they did something drastic like make KM a flat PPM like 4 total and removed Obliteration & CDR so you couldn’t get extras then sure, everything could get buffed.

It’s an execute. Why should an execute be off the GCD?

Wrong. Almost everything he does is Unholy based. At best, he has Remorseless and his armor that are “Frost”, and the armor doesn’t really count since it was encased in ice.

Also wrong. Ret Paladins were ignored much more severely than DKs. But after the Ret rework, it’s WW Monks, who have been asking for changes consistently since at least BFA, maybe even Legion, while DKs have been mostly Shadowlands & now.

Right.

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How do I do the quote reply thing lol. Been a while since I’ve cared to be on the forums

Edit: Okay I don’t use the forums much, so I think I have to edit this because replying gives errors:

Well to respond:

  1. make remorseless winter trigger our cleave rather than dnd.
    You said no.

Personally I don’t agree. I think the cleave makes sense thematically and specwise. Probably there needs to be a nerf to male it line up. DnD as it is for frost is stupid. For UH dks, even though they need to use DnD for cleave they get a damage buff due to their mastery. We do not have that. So that is my main issue here.

increase the range of remorseless winter and also make it look cooler
You said yes, and yeah not much more to say there

get rid of the massive damage nerf on howling blast aoe for rime procs
Again you said wonderful, I agree

reduce the km damage of obliterate to 300% but raise the base damage by 100%.

“I’m not sure what this means. You want to nerf Frostreaper? Remove the guaranteed crit? What number are you currently going from to have KM Obliterate do 300% damage of a regular Obliterate?”

No for this one I’m just think of single target. Mainly I think it might be more fun overall for obliterate km procs to do slightly less damage but every other ability we do to do more damage. Just a balance thing, because sometimes in our downtime we feel kinda like we noodles.

I don’t know about the Legion changes, but what you said sounds not good from the perspective of where we’re at now. I played before then and after then. Idk about that. But still, I don’t think those complaints apply to current day.

Executes for warriors are rage based, so they should be rp based for dks. Not sure why you don’t like that.

I guess when it comes to Arthas its a matter of perspective, but man the Frozen Throne. Technically Arthas was THE DK, so I guess he was all of them. But he sure did like the frost abilities lol

For the ignored thing, I was specifically talking about Frost. That’s the only spec I’m referring to in this whole argument just to be clear. Cata and before I think it was more unified and well balanced. I just think now we have some issues that could be easily fixed. And yes before you say anything I can absolutely destroy most people even in M+, but like most of the other frost dks… jk there aren’t other frost dks. Its us

EDIT2: I DON’T THINK THAT’S WHAT I WANTED TO COPY PASTE. At this point sorry man I’d like to debate but now I’m copy pasting not what I waanted and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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Highlight the text and there should be a popup titled “Quote”.

I don’t have an issue with that Off the GCD is the issue. When damage abilities are takent off the GCD they’re normally just macro’d into other abilities so nothing would really change except pressing Obliterate would also drain 5 RP in execute scenarios.

It was inverted to what we have now. Think of it was Rime/FS doing current KM Obliterate damage with Obliterate doing current Rime/FS damage and Remorseless with Gathering Storm somewhere in between. Scythe was the AOE Obliterate and BoS was a 30-40s~ burst CD.

A more balanced & spread around damage profile & playstyle vs. the one now that’s lopsided for both towards Obliterate.

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What about having KM work with HB, FS, and Obliterate? Consuming KM with obliterate will cleave, FS does the normal always crit thing, and if you use HB with rime and KM it would be huge aoe damage.

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Agree with most of your feedback but want to add some context on your comment about Obliterate hitting harder and everything else getting adjusted down which is true.

Obliterate was hitting like a pool noodle. It was laughable to call the ability “Obliterate.” So folks asked them to make it hit like its name sake. Rightfully so.

The problem is the implementation. They went way overboard. The easiest thing to do would be to transfer some power back in the other abilities to a reasonable level while keeping Obliteration impactful.

If we looked at it by total throughput:
Bring Obliterate down from 40% to 25%
Raise RW up to 7.5%
Raise Rime up to 7.5%

So like 35% nerf to Obliterate, 150% buff to RW, 200% buff to Rime.

I would also redistribute obliterate damage. Lower rate of KM procs, higher naked damage, Nuke hard during obliteration and when KM goes off. Something to that effect. The naked obliterates wouldn’t feel so bad because they would proc big rimes.

They could literally do this by next season.

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This would be an interesting direction. Ability tuning would be necessary so that a FS crit in ST his harder than obliterate in ST. But I like it.

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Obliterate shouldnt be cleaving.

What does this mean? To cap Obliterate damage to 300% of what its basline is and increase its base damage by 100%? No more scaling with mastery then?

Not if you played DK prior to Legion.

Then something needs to change with KM. KM (with Frostreaper) just takes the baseline damage, turns it into frost damage and then that gets affected by mastery further. Thats why there are huge swings in damage. Something has to get axed from Obliterate.

Its really not though. 90% of what he did was unholy based. The WC3 DK was what we would say is 100% unholy.

He created some walls, used Remorseless Winter, and used some frost orbs. Not someone I would say loved frost abilities when he used more shadow based stuff than Frost. More people just take his location into play than what he actually did.

No. No more Obliterate cleave. We have Frostscythe that has been sitting there collecting dust because of this bad design of Obliterate mega damage and cleave.

Then the ability should have been changed entirely and a rune spender put in its place like Rune Strike. Have Obliterate be something that isnt pressed that much with higher damage.

This is the very reason why I said the spec should have the focus 2 expansions ago.

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Its basically the original way it worked

Edit: by basically im not talking about obliterate cleaving. KM was not consumed by obliterate originally. Only HB and FS.