a. no one even does normal raids anymore.
b. if you happen to find one, you won’t get invited unless you have some M+ gear on these days.
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How did I get a spot in a normal raid on my hunter for an extra attempt at the bow then ?
Start a group.
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I’m going to guess you had a bunch of M+ gear on when you queued.
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And we carried 3 peeps who didn’t even have double legendaries and no tier to speak of. Pugs too, lead didn’t care.
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Is M+ gear the new bogeyman of the forums or something? Y’all acting like it’s some sort of illegal drug people use for advantages or some crap like that.
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Huge agree, it’s one of the reasons why I think FFXIV has became one of WoW’s biggest and strongest competitors. While crafted gear has an extreme importance in Savage Raids there is much less compulsory content. You go do what you want when you want and item level is much less important.
As I said before I wish WoW had even more pillars of content then just the meager few we get.
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The PvP next expansion looks to be pretty good with rated solo queue and easier access to competitive gear.
It’s their new excuse for failing. Of course never mind they were failing before M+ was even a thing, but it’s the new scapegoat.
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That Gingi video is such a banger. Good times.
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check out raider.io - why is +15 the most popular key run if not for the fact that it gave the best gear in the vault? Why did a disproportionate number of people run precisely 8 keys a week if not for the fact that that would give them the max number of slots to choose from?
You’re saying that M+ would be as popular if gear rewards were taken away from it? Really? That the fact that the best way to gear up was spam M+ , for which you got loot even if you didn’t time it was just a coincidence and the millions of keys run are all because people wanted to do DoS again and again for the sheer joy of it?
I mean we can extrapolate this out as to why things like the covenant sanctum and jailer’s gauntlet were largely ignored by players who claim to want solo content. It didn’t reward gear.
Gear is the primary motivating factor for nearly everyone that plays this game, whether they want to admit it or not.
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My hope is that Microsoft keeps their word and targets a wider community as a whole once they take charge. In fact, thats my highest hope for WoW going into the future. So far, Microsoft has done great with IPs they’ve taken over.
I don’t want any content reduced or removed, I want content for many types and kinds of players. This is a combination theme park, MMO, Grind, RPG game and should appear to the maximum amount of players rather than a small select few.
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I bet there are tons! Thousands!
But, I’m the kind of raider where I will do every single thing possible to be better for my group. Doing M+ makes you better therefore I’d see it as a requirement. I’m in no way asserting that it is a requirement for EVERYONE only that it’s my own personal view.
So, no raiding 
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No doubt as gear plays such a vital role in how powerful your character is. If ilevel mattered less, people would be much more free to play all aspects of the game. For example, many are complaining that they have to M+ rather than raid due to gear and that should NEVER be the case. People should be able to play the content they want to do to gear up. No welfare gear, just earned gear from many different methods.
yes it is very bad to design a competitive environment that people engage in and pay a monthly subscription
very very bad game design and business choices blizzard, dont listen to the customers, dont make profits
Just because they complain doesn’t make it true.
Echo cleared Sepulcher without touching M+.
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m+ gear matters that much to raid? or did a streamer tell you or your GM that?
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You have to word your statements better 
No one
HAS TO
Do M+ to raid, those people merely WANT TO in order to give themselves every advantage. Just like you don't HAVE TO go to college to be a millionaire, but it helps. The "it helps" is the problem here. If "it helps" then certain types of gamers "have to"
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WoW is a 17 year old MMO focused on player power progression through gear upgrades, with the best gear dropping from challenging group content. If you want a game with horizontal gear progression, why not play GW2?
I’ve read a lot of posts about M+ rewards vs raid rewards, plus the changes to loot that will benefit M+.
That was just a tiny example of what I was referring to. Apparently, I hit a soft spot or something. My point was that people are complaining about having to do content they don’t want to do to when Blizzard should be giving a lot more of a dynamic approach. Problem is, that will never happen with the ilevel power gap. It’s just too extreme right now.