I don’t understand how guilds are clearing bwl day one in 30 mins

We are completely stuck on Vael and we have done about 12 pulls already. We were able to get Razorgore down in 3 tries, but this is something completely different. And we clear MC every week in 2 hours and are pretty geared.

How the hell are guilds one shotting BWL in 30 mins? BWL is a significant step up from MC. It is hard.

They have been practicing on pservers for literal years. Plus, this is a 15 old game, none of this is new.


Practice practice practice


Probably preparation? And having raiders use the best gear or talents available to maximize dps?

What is causing the Veil wipes? Is it the tank dying randomly? Have a priest in each group focusing on just spamming Prayer of Healing to outheal the damage while the pally healers focus on the tank and maybe other dps taking damage. Use the Lay of Hands trick to give your tank bonus armor on pull. If you have a priest in the tank’s group spamming Prayer of Healing, he might also get good uptime on Inspiration.

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Still seems difficult.

Once you learn the fights, it won’t be.


But are you perfectly geared/enchanted/world buffed/consumed/flasked and engineering stacked with a perfect raid comp that knows every single mob/pull/positioning in the entire zone - a comp thats been created after 15 years of trial and error in regards to fresh p servers and speed runs?


Sounds like you have some progression raiding to look forward to. Enjoy it. I’m not sure what you’re here for if not that.


It is difficult.
Thats why you practice
Its easy with enough practice


being lvl 23 doesn’t help, i think everything in bwl 1 shots you if you’re lvl 23.


The clears are from practice, preparation, and forsight.

They gathered the gear they would need before it came out, gathered the mats, and already know the strategy.

It’s not a surprise they are doing it considering the age of the game.


So many come expecting to loot free epics day 1 from BWL, as if it was the same difficulty as ony/mc. Those raiders will need ZG gear/enchants to make the BWL a cakewalk.


In vanilla I was in a guild that never stopped struggling on Rag. Submerge was the norm, and surviving phase 2 was not. We tried razorgore and quickly gave up. Did well in ZG and even AQ20 though.

My guild made it to Firemaw tonight on our first session raiding BWL, and although I was initially dissapointed we didn’t go further, I’m looking forward to the progression. This is when we see the people who won’t survive future tiers quit. This is when we learn to communicate as a guild. This is honestly my favorite part of the game.


thats on the slower side for mc, lots of guilds clear it in under an hour. My guild usually has about an hour clear time in MC and we struggled in BWL tonight.

I have described the raid content as follows. MC/Ony is on par to LFR. BWL is around normal raid difficulty. AQ40 steps it up into heroic raiding. Finally Naxx is your mythic level raid. As far as ZG and AQ20 the best comparison there is heroic dungeon and then mythic dungeon.

If you are struggling in BWL. You most likely never see AQ40 and Naxx. This is how it was in vanilla too.

Well lets see, they have a raid group full of R13/14 players running all BiS gear, have been playing PServers for years and running this instance to the point where they can do it in their sleep and are very coordinated.

Think of it like this. Most raid groups are a Pee-Wee Football team compare to them being a NFL team.


Vael has been known at the “guild killer” for 15 years for a reason. Casual guilds who don’t try hard enough, tend to not get past him. All your players need to step up and remove their heads from their butts.

We clear MC in about an hour, our speed run was 50 minutes. We did BWL full clear on our first night, took like 3+ hours, but we did it, and we intend to improve that time. We aren’t top tier by any means, but we are good enough.


I guess i’m just in a bad guild.

I’ll just uninstall the game and cancel my sub.


I bet the standard of players in your raid is alot higher than those of vanilla era days. I myself thought i was a good warrior back then - i know how bad i actually was now though.

Agree 100%. Over the last few months we have had 2 entire guilds formed from our raiders that had issues with our core team values - those values being tank prio on gear and the use of consumes as mandatory. The last group of players to have left our guild and created their own guild, wiped a few times on Vael before their raid fell apart. I cant wait to get in there Monday and have some actual progression/kills.

Our last MC we cleared 30 mins faster than our previous best with this team.


That’s not a good attitude. Sorry to be that guy but if you are looking to breeze through then this is not the version for you. Personally, I don’t give up so easily.

For some, myself included, it will take time and you must persevere. As Futrid said above, it’s progression raiding and I agree this is the fun part. You may need to step back and get better gear. Research the fight. And keep plugging away.

To borrow from the Marines, “Improvise, Overcome and Adapt!” It’s a good feeling when you finally get through it.