You say “all,” but IMHO that’s actually a pretty substantial change/retcon.
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That is a wrong way to look at it.
The Light still have more beneficial effects passively, but can be used to hurt.
The Void have no beneficial effects, but can also still be used to hurt.
They are quite clearly not the same.
The Light and the Void just being, has no bearing on the fact of what the users of these cosmic forces can do with it. Just because The Light as a cosmic and The Void as a cosmic force has no moral compass and no conscience of their own, which we know to be 100%, it has been stated over and over again, and nothing in Warcraft have ever suggested otherwise.
Sorry to say, but the example of the one ring is dumb, because the one ring is the will of Sauron. The ring has the conscience of Sauron. That aside.
The Light and the Void are just cosmic forces. The users of either, can be whatever. The light overall has more beneficial effects, but that does not make ‘The Light’ itself morally good.
What difference would it make if they had wills of their own? They would still have the same effects, could still be used in the same manner. Now the only difference is, if they had wills of their own. How truly good is the light anyway? When it lets its followers just slaughter innocent people? When it lets its followers forcefully subjugate people?
Does it not bring us to the same dilemma? The light is the bad guys, the light is the good guys?
The Light is neither good or bad. It has positive effects, but the Light is not a being, it is not a diety, it is not alive, it does not think, it does not wish anything, it does not desire anything, the light just is.
Same with the void, minus the beneficial effects, unless you count it being there to balance out the light… somehow… which blizzard never really expanded on, because blizzard are silly.
I can’t remember if it was changed. But I think the Void Gods are just naaru who lost their light. The Void Lords are the entities composed of pure shadow and who rule over the realm of the void.
That said, when I speak of representing the void, I mean speaking the will of the void. No creature in existence does that. The Naaru beings of light, most often, they are filled with visions due to the light, and they think they are doing the light’s will. But they are not, because the light has no will.
Same with the Void Lords.
Nothing has ever contradicted what I state, nothing have ever suggested otherwise other than pure misconceptions and misunderstandings from the playerbase.
As said, the exact same thing happened in Star Wars with the force and ‘balance’ because people just can’t understand ‘balance’ as being something else other than putting equal amount of weight onto both sides of a scale… people can not actually comprehend something more complex.
Maybe that is why blizzard quickly gave up on trying to write interesting lore, people would not get it.
The term Heresy is in reference to Christian Religions the Catholics consider false and blasphemous.
The Catholics from those days and the Puritans are seen with the same view as the Pharisees and Sadducees. Of course the Catholics were seen as Idol-worshipping Heathens(due to the praying to Saints thing) by the other Christians unlike the Puritans, Pharisees & Sadducees who were seen for what they were.
Don’t shadow priests get a fairly passive buff while in shadow form? Cloak of Shadows which Rogues use can remove a majority of harmful effects - and I pretty sure that beneficial without doing anything to hurt the rogue in question… I’m sure I we could keep going on all the non-harmful spells and abilities that use shadow/void magic.
I don’t think that’s not why Blizzard gave up on interesting lore - people would get it - if they read it. The problem is that they expected their audience to read it rather than present them in game in any meaningful way.
The void can heal undead withought causing pain, it can hide since all rogues use it, it has plently of beneficial uses
No, it’s not wrong. The Void used on appropriate targets and for the right reasons can remove an evil person—a beneficial effect. The other stuff is just a difference in the nature of the tool, like the difference between a sword, a bow, and a pickaxe. I don’t find that particularly interesting.
You’re ignoring all the examples people have given you in this thread of places where it has been suggested otherwise.
First, do you actually mean conscience, or do you mean consciousness? From context, I’m starting to suspect you mean the latter.
Second, you’ve misunderstood the reason I mentioned it. It is not meant to be an exact analogy to the Light in Warcraft. It was meant to be an example of how it is possible for a thing/force to have alignment without having sentience, or at least, having debatable sentience. And also an example of how a thing/force with an alignment can be used by someone who doesn’t share that alignment, and not be able to withhold its power from the user.
I don’t care whether they have wills of their own. But they did have alignments. Note, once again, that alignment, consciousness, and will are all separate things.
You’re assuming the Light is more powerful than those who wield it. The Light can be able to be dominated and still be good.
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Puritan thought and theology is still a huge part of American fundamentalist Christian philosophy.
On the Pharisees and Sadducees, I think the fact that they got villain batted in the Gospels is evidence to me that the Gospels are Roman fan-fic.
Joseph of Arimathea is a Pharisee. So was Nicodemus. Making the Pharisees out to be the real villains of the Jesus narrative is very Roman.
Realistically, no one is likely seen for “what they were” that far back in history.
Void gods are not and have never been former naaru, but naaru do have a form called void god.
This is like how there are void walker demons and void walker void walkers. How undead warlocks are called Death Knights.
Blizzard reuses names.
Void lords are so powerful that they can only manifest in our reality by way of possessing a world soul. Naaru are no where near that.
“Other people are just as bad as I am”
Rivetting argument.
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Naaru, as far as we know, are born of the leftover light from the creation of the universe. So no, they aren’t changed by the light, they’re born of it. Shadowlands also supports this with the Light invasion of Revendreth.
You might revert wowpedia to the year of our Lord two thousand upon eight and read what it says about naaru.
Paul himself admits to being a Pharisee.
How is that a change?.. villains have been wielding the Light since Vanilla. Arthas was wielding the Light right up to the moment he picked up Frostmourne. He only faltered in the moments he was unsure, the Scarlet Zealots have no hesiation and thus have no issues with using the Light to burn the innocent.
That’s cool. Current lore from chronicle, however, states pretty much what I said. Not the first time newer lore overrites older lore, and it won’t be the last.
I’ve already gone into detail above about why I don’t see that as proof that the Light wasn’t a good-aligned force.
A better question might be, why do you see it as a change? If you think the Light never had a “halo” to begin with.
But aren’t most of the NT books save Revelations sourced from texts long before Christianity took hold in Rome? I get why the idea of the Catholic church softening the gospels on Rome makes some level of sense, but there’s tons of academic research (legit and bogus) into early Christian history
If one is trying to fix Judan religious/cultural issues of the days, why would you spend much energy on the Roman occupiers who were usually hands off so long as you paid up and paid lip service to Roman religion.
According to religionforbreakfast the New testament canon was chosen because they were the most widely distributed and popular books in the Christian world (which was mostly the Roman empire) at the time. Hand transcribed and distributed around Rome. The existence of the New testament is very Roman.
this is only partially correct as an account. that is, it only accounts in part. also, the content of christ’s teachings themselves are not particularly roman, either in intellectual lineage or in political inclination; probably the better way to think of the question is to wonder about the process by which things like historical biographies are written and compiled. one might certainly say something like ‘educated early christians might owe some debt to e.g. tacitus in their style and comportment,’ but that’s a different sort of understanding of roman influence
I don’t. I’m not the poster whos making the Light a stand in for personal religion. I’m heavily into the Michael Moorcock view of cosmic forces. Forces that have their own agenda and aren’t really that concerned over the priorities of mortals.
The Light is just a type of magic. It’s no more good or evil than any other type of magic. It depends on those who are using it.
To have the Light just be a universal moral good would do irreparable harm to the setting. Especially since 1 of the playable factions has rather little to do with the Light.
The Naaru clearly have goals. Goals that do not always align between them. See A’dal sending people to kill Illidan while Xe’ra wanted to do things to him. It’s also questionable how much those goals benefit the mortals they use as pawns.
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