Nope. They were likely found out and exterminated. Dreadlords are very good at controlling information.
The Legion isn’t just Man’ari Eredar.
Pale in comparison the number of non-Man’ari demons that made up the Legion who would gladly rat out any dissent, Man’ari or otherwise, if it meant they could rise through the ranks.
This is Warcraft. Ridiculous stories are its bread and butter. The only franchise that has more ridiculous story telling is Warhammer.
Competence in what? Waging war?
What was the Alliance going to do if they deposed her? Burn their city to the ground and slaughter their civilians like they did during the Siege of Orgrimmar? Or like they did Sylvannas was actually deposed? The Alliance has had numerous opportunities to deal with the Horde permanently and chose not to. The argument of “They were afraid the Alliance would continue the war” is silly, given the history.
So what you’re saying is that every man’ari in the Legion (hundreds of thousands, if not millions) was under constant surveillance PERSONALLY supervised by dreadlords So much so that the moment they defected, they would be killed instantly?
Take a step back and ask yourself how that makes sense in the Warcraft universe.
Given everything we’ve been shown demons will do for self-gain… Yes. It makes perfect sense. When even a lowly imp can develop devious plots to trick and eliminate demons that are several times their weight-class… yes. It makes perfect sense.
So a lowly imp can overthrow their superiors but a cunning, intelligent man’ari can’t devise a scheme? You’re digging the whole deeper lol
Not really. How many millions of imps were in the Legion? Imps that would gladly go running to the nearest Dreadlord or loyal Man’ari to rat out someone if it meant they get a reward for it? How many succubi? Shivvarra? Other Man’ari who were loyal?
Betrayal and backstabbing was extremely common among the lower ranks of the Legion and has been showcased several times.
So despite showcasing that betrayal and deceit happens within the ranks of the Legion frequently, you fervently believe that the man’ari were incapable of defecting because the security around them was disproportionately intense such that every single man’ari at every point in time was under surveillance and the moment they tried to defect, they would be executed? To be clear, this would mean that there was someone close and ready to execute them at a moment’s notice.
Yep. That’s exactly how Blizzard wrote the Burning Legion. An infinitely large organization that kept its forces in line through fanatical devotion to Sargaras… or absolute fear if they didn’t obey. Any dissent was rooted out painfully through torture, mind control, and soul rending.
Sometimes. Other times the dissenters were meant to think they escaped, only for a Dreadlord with an army of Inquisitors to appear, chuckling that it was amusing the dissenters thought they would get away. Dreadlords do love playing with their food.
Giggling at the examples in the OP of death knights “they couldn’t resist” and Illidari “we thought we were doing the right thing” then followed up with orcs like “they just suck as an entire race”.
I didn’t realize anybody actually bought into the whole “warchief is bad because it has war in the name” schlock from BFA’s ending.
So never in the history of the Legion has anyone successfully defected? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Avrus_Illwhisper
I’m using Velen’s line as a reference and trying to show the orcs have continued to be overcome by their darkness, despite Velen saying otherwise.
A 5 min quest chain is not enough to heel turn demons who have been committing genocide for thousands of years.
Nope the way they addressed it is great.
The Eredar are a fundamentally broken people, whose survivors are scattered accross several planets and joined various groups with divergent interests. They experienced what was probably the most brutal and sudden civilizational collapse in the history of Warcraft. Now that the Draenei have finally found a home for themselves in the Great Dark and reached a somewhat stable situation, notably through their Alliance membership, the next natural step for them is to try and rebuild their broken nation—to truly become a people again. Their history being what it is, doing so necessarily implies reaching out to people they may still be extremely uncomfortable with : don’t forget that only a tiny fraction of the Eredar population fled Argus with Velen. The vast majority of the Eredar became Man’ari. This alone makes it impossible for Velen to just pretend like they don’t exist. They exist, and they still represent the bulk of his fallen race. So yes, he had to try something. That’s why Hatuun’s words in this questline rang particularly true : “If Velen is all he claims to be, then he would not turn away even the least worthy of his people”. Especially when most of these people were civilians who were caught up in this mess and probably never had any idea where the “choice” (if you can even call it a choice) they made would lead them.
Basically, the history and situation of the Eredar (referring to the race as a whole, not the Man’ari) is so tragic, so dire, so complicated, that Velen doesn’t get to be picky. If he wants his people to be one once again, each and every group will have to acknowledge and accept the others’ history and legacy : the Exodar Draenei, the Lightforged Draenei, the Outland Broken, and now the Man’ari and apparently the Krokuul too most likely. Only the Lost Ones remain. Though perhaps they have effectively moved on and don’t want anything to do with Velen anymore.
In some very specific situations like this one, seeking justice at all costs isn’t the right thing to do. Arzaal said it : what the Man’ari did is unforgivable. Whatever. They can still be part of their people’s future if they genuinely will to do so, because future is inherently uncertain for such a fragile race, so all help is welcome.
(Similarly, the Orcs weren’t gonna repent for generations, for obvious reasons. They already live in a resourceless barren wasteland out of penance, which was a questionable decision from Thrall actually, as it effectively doomed their children to live significantly harder lives so as to atone for sins they themselves never commited. On that one specific matter, Garrosh was right, actually. Too bad that psycho was awfully wrong about everything else.)
This is a well-thought post that doesn’t resort to silly arguments to get your point across. I’ll consider the implications 
Sure, one or two individuals may be able to evade capture. There’s that Man’ari fella in the Dalaran Sewers.
Would any other Man’ari in the Legion even know about it, though? Do any of them know Val’zuun is out there somewhere? My guess is most of them did not know. A hallmark of authoritarianism is absolute control of information, which the Dreadlords are adept at doing. Propaganda control is extremely effective at keeping people in line and not knowing what is actually happening.
What was the Alliance going to do if they deposed her? Burn their city to the ground and slaughter their civilians like they did during the Siege of Orgrimmar? Or like they did Sylvannas was actually deposed? The Alliance has had numerous opportunities to deal with the Horde permanently and chose not to. The argument of “They were afraid the Alliance would continue the war” is silly, given the history.
Just going to jump in with my two copper to say that the Alliance’s reaction to when Sylvanas was actually deposed came after development throughout the war. The Alliance’s first big move after the Burning of Teldrassil was to attack the Undercity. Had the Horde tried to overthrow Sylvanas after the burning, even if they had succeeded, evidence indicates that the Alliance would have continued the war at that point. By the time Sylvanas showed her true colors, the Horde’s options were limited and it made sense for the common soldier to think they had to fight to survive.
I don’t think I want for orcs to change and atone, They’re a race that came from dangerous and unforgiving world which shaped them the way they are. And they can be written in very fun way, like Nazgrim.
Maybe instead of converting everyone “on the right path” we should just accept that every society comes with flaws and virtues? And focus on fleshing them out instead of homogenising them?
The Man’arai had a front side ticket to see how large a grudge Kil’jaeden could keep—He hunted the Draenei for thousands of years, torching any world they touched in the pursuit of his revenge for the perceived slight of abandoning him. They had no reason to think they would not also be hunted to the ends of the Great Dark and suffered unspeakable torments when caught if it was noticed they were gone.
They had two options basically—Join the Legion or have their soul sucked out and used as fuel for the Legion’s war machines. They would not even get an afterlife, just unending pain until they ceased to exist. Either way, they were going to serve the legion. It is a no win situation for them. The plight of the common civilian stuck on argus is pretty sad in a way.
The biggest problem I have here is that you are talking about “redeeming” races (like “the orcs”). People aren’t in need of “redemption” just because of the race they happen to be born into.
Individual Germans never needed redemption. If they had embraced the ideology of hatred, they would have been responsible for that choice, as any non-German would. (we have people like that in the US). If they reject it, then kudos to them. But they aren’t being “redeemed”, they are just making the right choice.
I don’t know if there are any Man’ari who didn’t kill and destroy. But if they are, they also have no need of redemption.
Hm, ok. I’ve had some time to think about your post. I like the approach you take of Velen seeing it as an opportunity to unite his fractured people. I still don’t think that addresses the fact that for tens of thousands of years the man’ari tried to eradicate the Draenei. That’s not something that can or should be easily forgiven over night, even if unification is the goal. I don’t think Velen’s primary motivation for his people is unification. I think there are additional layers to it.
As a Night Elf stan, I can’t stand that the Orcs think they are entitled to encroach on Kaldorei lands and cut down their forests because “We chose to invade this world and then exile ourselves to a desert :C We are victims :C :C :C”
Especially when we know that Night Elves can harvest lumber without cutting down trees. Trade should have been the first thing on their mind if they were truly repentant, not invasion and destruction of sacred land.