Exactly… smh…
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I really don’t understand what that guy’s deal is. It’s obvious he’s hellbent on making sure Arcane never gets a buff and remains in the dumps but why? He claims it’s because buffing it would somehow make it overpowered. First of all, we can’t know what will happen until charges are actually made. Second, even if Blizzard overshoot the mark which is highly unlikely because they never do more the incremental changes, so what? They can just roll out a hotfix the very next day. And lastly, what is the underlying concern here exactly? That Arcane will become the new Fire or the new Boomkin? Again: so what? Why is that a bad thing? There will always be a top dog and frankly Arcane has never been in that position in 15 years so I for one say it’s high time that changes.
P.S. The fact that he’s posting on a lvl 10 allied character just screams forum troll and I should know better than to engage but I am sure as hell not going to let him dominate the discussion with this inane nonsense.
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Thousands of logs would suggest otherwise. Having to have the planets align and preplan 40 gcds is not competitive
It’s because fire is better in all circumstances. Aoe, cleave and ST.
No it proves that the spec is terribly designed if only a handful of players of exceptional skill under what can really only be called lucky circumstances manage to pull incredible numbers. And many top logs are guilds specifically tailor their fight so that one person can shine. It’s why Aff lock used to be insane on Mythic Eonar fights in Antorus.
You’re again showing just how badly the spec is designed especially with modern raid design.
No one is saying it is, but given this is the mage forums, mage is what we’re concerned with. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.
Which again proves the current designers are out of touch.
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See, I’m not arguing with feelings. I’m arguing with facts. You want to eliminate the “elitists”? Sure, go ahead. On M. CN, on all item levels, all percentiles, Arcane ranks 10th. That’s competitive. Now, if you can’t do as good with the spec, that’s your issue. But statistical performance doesn’t care about your feelings.
After I dismantled your completely baseless claim that Arcane’s execute lego is a “DPS loss” (I’m still laughing) I honestly find it weirdly ironic that you think I’m trolling when you don’t have any sense of how a spec works.
What does my level have to do with anything? You did the same thing before: posted nonsense, got debunked, and resorted to calling out my level. If levels were relevant to one’s credibility, I’d say you bought your level 60 because of the stuff you type.
Again, top 10 in mythic CN on all percentiles for the past 2 weeks. Higher than Frost, mind you.
If you look at their parses, the circumstances weren’t necessarily lucky, they did get targeted by boss mechanics.
To sum up, some folks can’t play a spec that is parsing in the top 10 on all DPS specs in organized mythic raids, and can excel to the point of finishing in the top 10 for its class when played extremely well. Some specs are more difficult than others. Get over it. It’s actually bizarre to expect yourself to be equally good with every single spec or to demand a mechanical overhaul of a spec because YOU found something difficult.
Keep charges, and have them work more similarly to Holy Power - you build and spend on a spell (ABarr for AoE, disintegration beam for ST, maybe a 3rd spell for 2-target) but you don’t lose AB damage when you have fewer charges.
Keep AM as a proc, similar to how it played in WoD where it deals far more damage than AB.
If they really want to tie mana into the spec still, have it more like Focus - you have AB to drain it and another spell to build it but it flows better. You can still keep AM procs, charges, ABarr and develop other spells that work off the charges. Talents can be amended to increase procs rates, costs, instant-mana cds etc or even alter the spenders themselves (eg: have the ST spender now hit a 2nd target).
It just isn’t. Maybe in M+ but certainly not in raid. Outside of the very, very few top players who would still get better results from any other spec, Arcane just isn’t capable of the damage needed to be even slightly competitive. In Mythic, a 99% Arcane is about equivalent to an 85% of the other specs. In Heroic, a 90% is the same as a 50%. These 0.01% players who can make Arcane work, are still being beaten by 15% of their dps counterparts.
Except that you have so few parses past Xymox that it’s not statistically possible to make any sort of judgement. 8 parses on Sludgefist. Again, all that means is that at that level the only people who play Arcane are the gods, and even then imagine what they could be doing with Fire or Boomkin.
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Fair point, but to cry for a buff on a spec that one can’t do well with is pointless because there are people who are doing well with the spec. It’s different than the predicament Frost was in a few months ago. Even the best of players couldn’t bring the numbers with the spec.
The picture would become clearer in a few months time as more people clear content. This is likely what Blizz is holding out for as well.
I just don’t see the point of attacking my level on the forums and saying a spec needs a mechanical overhaul while also putting up absolute nonsense like this:
^ When people who actually BELIEVE this say/support a thought that a spec needs a mechanical overhaul, it’s not wrong to say they have no credibility because they don’t even know how a spec works in the first place.
Out of potentially 10,000+ players, fewer than 10 people can “do well” with it. If that isn’t an indicator that the spec is inherently borked I don’t know what is.
The longer the spec is underwhelming, the fewer players will play it. Compare the number of Arcane parses in the first few weeks compared to now and it has already dropped dramatically. By the end of the tier the number of Arcane parses across any boss will be down to single figures.
Simply put, it’s the ‘masses’ that make this game what it is. They pay the vast majority of subs, are the ones who watch the MDI/world 1st race. If the game isn’t good for them they’ll stop playing. I’m not saying the top players shouldn’t have the edge or that the game needs to be simplified to the point that a drinking bird could top meters, but a spec needs to be playable and somewhat competitive by more than a handful of players worldwide. That’s not what WoW is.
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Your level has nothing to do with it. It’s the fact that you purposely created a lvl 10 allied character to hide behind. Also your behavior on here is deplorable. There is such a thing as an expectation of civility when engaging with other people, something you clearly know nothing about.
You didn’t dismantle anything. I was not discussing Arcane Bombardment in general, I was talking about using ABarr in a single target rotation and specifically on the Sire fight. Arcane Bombardment is amazing on fights that have frequent burst AoE. There are no fights like that in CN (except maybe Sun King). Arcane Bombardment is terrible on single target fights. Also Arcane has no execute at base, that’s a fact. Fire has it as a talent. Arcane has one execute legendary that is very rarely BiS. Fire’s execute is FAR more powerful than Arcane’s. Those are facts. You are the one who is ignoring them completely and comes off as not knowing anything about the reality of how the specs work.
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So your argument is basically “Arcane is fine for the 99th percentile of the 99th percentile and therefore doesn’t need a buff so the other 99.9999998% of the game can compete.” I mean I guess I can understand that IF you’re one of those 10 or so people, but that’s simply just not realistic as an overall design for a spec. As people have stated on here, you cannot design a spec around the 1%.
No, some cannot. But when that “some” is 99.999998% of players, there’s an issue. I get if you’re that guy who has the top 10 world parse you don’t want them to do anything differently, but not only is that selfish but it’s bad for the game. To basically tell every non-top 10 mythic parsing arcane mage in the world the equivalent of “you suck, L2Play” isn’t a good message to send. Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re not, but it’s still a bad direction for the game to go.
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^ This /10char
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Sorry that you’re getting dogpiled so hard, I think what you’re saying is mostly reasonable. Still, I do want to address and explain what I said above.
My point about arcane not being the best DPS in the game when played well wasn’t meant to say that it “should” be. All I’m saying is that a lot of Arcane players - the very good ones included - have submitted a lot of (what I think are) very reasonable opinions and suggestions that the class could be improved to make it more approachable and more viable in more circumstances.
I’m well aware that arcane mages parse very well at the highest level on very specific fights. But there’s two parts to that- one is that it depends strongly on the fight being arcane favorable, and the other being that there’s a strong element of luck involved where the mage needs to get very lucky and/or literally never screw up anything at all. I think that’s still an issue, because whether or not the spec is “truly” viable is extremely dependent partially on the mechanics of the fight and partially on pure-and-simple luck.
(Side note: This is also something of a problem with judging a spec by parses generally, because the top ranked ones by nature represent the best case scenario)
Arcane does require a lot of good planning right now. The problem is that the spec has very few tools (and even less “good” ones) for adapting when they get disrupted. Having better tools to adapt or being better rewarded for flawless execution in the form of better damage both in that context make sense to me. And the reason I think that should be done really isn’t because of any issue with real non-viability, but just to make the spec feel better to play.
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Show me, I don’t stare at parses or logs all day. Then show me your arcane mage so I can judge accordingly. I can look up facts on a stock car, doesn’t make me a Nascar driver. Normally I give a squat about someone’s credibility, but yours deserves some context. Let me see…
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blah blah blah mythic raid parses.
Hey idiot, just because the spec can top the charts in a few fights on mythic due to high AOE doesn’t mean its in a good spot. Check the heroic parses. Check the top 5%. Check the top 1%. Arcane is ALWAYS on bottom 3 or worse.
If only a few outlying parses manage to do well that is meaningless. I’m sure someone who’s an expert on statistics like yourself understands why.
Besides, even if you’re right and arcane is good but only less than 1% of people can play it well, that STILL means the spec is EXTREMELY badly designed and needs a rework.
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Slipstream baseline.
Increase proc chance of clear casting.
Make arcane blast castable while moving with less than 3 arcane charges.
I think these 3 small improvements would go a long way towards making the spec more mobile and giving us small conserve phase window during forced movement.
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That’s a very clever backpedal but still wrong.
Temporal Warp is Arcane’s BiS ST legendary. AB is just 1-3% behind. On Sire, the fight we were discussing, you were saying that it isn’t good at all in P3, when
- P3 begins at 40%
- Arcane can execute at 35%
- TW wont work on that fight since you will lust there anyway, unless you have a Shaman use their lust which you can then stack with Time Warp.
If you look at logs for top Arcane mages, this is exactly what they’re doing. The majority are using Temporal Warp, and the 2nd highest majority are using the very legendary I suggested.
Now, you claim it’s a DPS loss there? PROVE it. Not your feel good craft (that is absolutely wrong, mind you). But actual sim proof that it’s a DPS loss. You can’t, because you literally still don’t understand how the spec works. You’re just that dumb.
On every single Arcane post on the forums, your basic rinse/repeat is “Arcane is a turret specs but even when I can turn I just burn off my mana and I have to conserve”. That is LITERALLY what the spec is meant to do. The fact that you don’t get this but then parade around with your pseudo-intelligence crying about how slow resource regeneration is (I showed you 3 ways in which it isn’t and challenged you to figure out the 4th, which you still can’t) just proves this.
And when you get called out, you basically resort to personal attacks because many people can see through your (very poor) guise. You’re 3/10 Heroic, and there are countless rotational flaws in the fights that you have parsed with. Did it ever occur to you that you could spend more time learning how to better your own play than whine and complain on the forums?
The irony in this post is you’re calling me an idiot without even looking at the logs as Arcane is wrecking on fights like Sludgefist, which is, single target.
I literally posted right off warcraft logs. If you’re too lazy to look them up, that’s not my fault. Nor is it my responsibility to educate you. If you don’t know how to check logs for top/worse performing logs, then stop posting about made up woes of a spec from your imagination. You want to bring up parses? Make sure you actually check them before people check you on them.
Actually, the rest of your post makes great sense, and I agree. Thanks. Arcane could do with some extra utility, but a mechanical overhaul isn’t needed.
Not defending anyone. I just checked the logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=95&aggregate=amount&boss=2399&itemleveldisplay=scaled&class=Mage&sample=7
and I don’t see this as wrecking. There’s one person that’s doing crazy damage for some reason. Seems like it’s barely beating frost on this one. Unless I’m looking at it wrong?
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I was checking ranking and last I checked an Arcane was at #2 on Mythic Sludge, which is, a single target fight. I get that not many are playing the spec (something I’ve acknowledged before) but like I said, those who can make the spec work can REALLY make it work.
There isn’t a Frost mage at top 100 on Mythic for the fight (unless something changed). I always filter and check US and EU only.
It’s not like he/she is hacking the game or anything. They have basically demonstrated the potential of the spec when in the right hands. Which was my point.
When Frost needed a buff, even the best Frost players with the best RNG could not put up the numbers, at all. That was just an undertune. With Arcane, it’s not necessarily that issue.
It’s always more gratifying to play Fire because it’s easier and most people would love to invest the least and get the most out of it, because for many people their DPS is tied to their ego.
While Arcane could use some utility changes, it doesn’t need a mechanical overhaul or a buff to its current output. Mind you it is getting some quality of life changes/buffs with 9.0.5 anyway. And it got the most reworks of the mage specs post-BFA anyway.
I’m having a hard time finding the specific parse. I just want to make sure that it’s not just someone that’s been buffed more (power infusion etc.). Otherwise I understand your point.
Edit: Found it,
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26/#boss=2399&class=Mage®ion=-1&spec=Arcane
The one parse has power infusion, the others don’t.
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