It’s not wrong, literally look up 99% of pay 2 win definitions
You’re definition of it is so watered down it can be applied to literally any online game
https:/ /www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
“[Pay-to-win]” or “[P2W]”, is a pejorative term for a game that offers any advantage that can be obtained FASTER or exclusively via commercial transactions over gameplay rewards or the impact of the player’s own performance.
https:/ /dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/p2w
pay-to-win : (in computer games) involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money:
“an advantage” Convivence is an advantage…
https:/ /www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/8w417u/what_is_your_definition_for_pay_to_win/
Literally almost every comment thread Convivence is talked about being apart of P2W. Even if its a game that having a secondary account to boost your main account counts at P2W in peoples eyes.
https:/ /en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pay_to_win
Adjective
pay to win (comparative more pay to win, superlative most pay to win)
(video games) Designed in such a way as to allow players to exchange real-world currency for in-game benefits
Noun
pay to win (uncountable)
(video games) The ability and/or practice of exchanging real-world currency for an in-game benefit.
Guess what a benefit is?
My definition isn’t water down your definition is overly narrowed. If you can spend $ money for an advantage its p2w period.
Literally the first 2 use real money as their example.
It’s what “pay” means lmfao.
If you buy gold in your first example for an item you aren’t getting it faster your item might not ever drop lmfao
Your own definitions like up with exactly what I said
You are either dumb as hell or being obtuse on purpose. Every single person who has commented about GDKP or anything else in WoW being P2W is talking about real money including Jandren who you responded first to.
An against TOS P2W market is still P2W. Buying gold with real money makes it pay to win.
It sounds like you have a very bad lack of understanding of the subject in the first place.
Your very first definition uses this as an example.
Imagine, for example, an Archery competition where the archers could optionally buy the right to use laser-dot scope aims in their bows Every archer would look to exploit that artificial advantage, instead of actually improving themselves at the sport.
Lmfao.
It’s literally saying paying real money for an advantage you can’t get by playing normally, this has always been the definition.
Here’s your 2nd link.
pay-to-win : (in computer games) involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money:
This literally means people who don’t spend real money because you could buy all the gold you want and people are getting the item for free so you have no advantage over them, it has ALWAYS meant that you need to spend REAL MONEY for player power that you can’t get in game.
Your very own links make my case.
Because that is ALSO P2W Actually obtuse in the head aren’t ya.
That same definition also says “is a pejorative term for a game that offers any advantage that can be obtained faster” Faster is just another way of saying convivence.
No one is denying what you said isn’t also P2W. But Not in a single one of these definitions is it limiting P2W to only Payment locked items.
You’re literally saying Apple is a fruit, thats why Orange is not a fruit. It makes 0 sense.
Edit: Oh yeah one more example of how flawed your logic is.
With this same logic you can say Gacha games aren’t pay to win. “you can spend $1,000 on Gacha rolls and not get your desired item”
I’m over arguing with that guy, it’s like talking to a brick-wall. He’s the type of player that speaks only in absolute black & white. Nuance apparently comes foreign to him.
GDKP has always existed in the grey area. In a perfect fairy-tale world where Blizzard banned every single buyer/seller permanently from the game, GDKP could co-exist and we’d all live in harmony. Doubt that GDKP would even be as popular without gold-sellers, though.
We do not live in that world, we live in the one where bots run rampant and players swipe their credit cards for currency to deck their characters out in a month of lockouts. They will quit playing once they have BiS and return the next phase.
The ones that don’t quit, only continue raid-logging as a “sword for hire” selling their big DPS for gold. The amount of gold they make from one GDKP invalidates every other traditional gold-farm in the game.
Those “pumpers” expect a big payout at the end of the run, so the players getting carried are forced to buy more gold from the bot-farmers to afford their entry and items.
It’s a never-ending cycle of bots injecting gold into the economy, GDKP groups creating the demand and once the players buy all of their gear, they make the gold right back carrying new players that also bought their gold.
If you think this is good for the game, I recommend you go play Classic Era. There’s a reason why it’s a rotting corpse these days.
I mean yeah, its the forums. You will never convince anyone of anything on here if they don’t want to be. You can show them hard math 2+2=4 and they will go no 2+2 does not = 4.
Except you buying gold does not make it faster because you’re still relying on a drop which is exactly what pay to win isn’t.
The whole point of pay to win which is exactly what the phrase was coined from was literally mobile games were you paid for an advantage you can’t get while playing.
There is no RNG you literally hit the shop button and go buy it.
You can’t do that in WoW.
The win part of pay to win is because you were literally competing against other players and someone who was paying real money would beat players who were not spending real money hence the winning.
If you think buying gold for an item that may never drop or paying for an item everyone else is getting for free is you winning idk what to tell you.
Bob paid $500 for gold to buy his main hand Warglaive but it never dropped, Billy got his Main hand week 3 and for free.
Don’t worry guys Bob is #Winning lmfao.
With your stupid take on it every MMO is p2w.
Yeah, I’m starting to see that. I wonder if these guys actually play the game if they think selling DMT runs is the same thing as allowing GDKP in a fresh 60 economy.
The reason why they tried it here in SoD and not Era is because the majority of guilds on Era have been running GDKPs for years now, every single week. It would honestly be pointless and just kill off the few active guilds left over there, outside of the occasional Whitemane SRs.
Yes it does in GDKP. As if it drops you get to skip the line then what gold you would have normally. Again you are using bad rng as an excuse.
Almost every MMO does indeed have some form of P2W. Some are minor offenders and it doesn’t actually harm the game while some are very bad offenders, some like Classic/SoD are only p2w using the “black market”. Retail is straight p2w with the token.
Yeah, I don’t argue to convince the person I am talking to as it will never happen. I argue because its fun and onlookers can see the arguments presented. (And I am bored at work 98% of the time I am on the forums)
If buying gold did not give you an inherent advantage in the time and effort it takes to gear your characters, nobody would have done it.
Buying gold means you don’t have to waste time farming it. Using that gold to outbid other players means you’ve cut out one half of the RNG that is competing with other players in a PUG. (Not talking about loot council and guild runs ofc)
Back in WoTLK, the players that bought gold finished their Shadowmournes far sooner than the average player, giving them an advantage in both PvE and PvP.
Look at how much gold people had by the end of WoTLK. The guys hosting GDKPs finished the expansion with multiple gold-caps… millions of gold.
Loot RNG is far less of a factor in Season of Discovery considering we have two Onyxia lockouts a week and Molten Core with bonus loot.
Being able to out-bid your fellow raiders will always give you an advantage. Just being able to pay money to join the best PUG runs is already giving you a time-advantage.
Why would a raid-leader ever host SR MS/OS runs during farm when they can simply charge an entry + take a cut and bring some of their best players to carry the pugs. They need that GDKP gold to help their own guild out next phase progression.
So you buy gold and you get the glaive week 1.
How is your glaive any different from everyone else who got it for free week 1??
What advantage do you have over people who didn’t spend real money?
Literally the point of p2w was to remove RNG and waiting and having more player power from paying real money.
None of that happens in wow.
You can water down the definition all you want.
There is no entry fee for gdkps, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Most MMO’s do have some form of P2W to a certain extent, yes. But most MMOs are not Classic re-releases. P2W is very much a modern problem that wasn’t as much of a plague in the earlier days of these games.
If you look at OSRS, you can buy gold directly from Jagex and buy almost any item in the game from another player. Even the best items. The game was designed that way, as sort of an economy simulator so that players can get the best items without ever killing a single boss or monster.
Classic WoW is the complete opposite. It is a combat, progression and cooperative focused MMO. The intended design of WoW was to reach the maximum level, join a guild and kill bosses with your friends in order to get your loot.
GDKP goes against everything Classic WoW was intended to be, a social game where you make friends and help each other accomplish goals + loot.
If Kevin Jordan wanted players to be able to buy the majority of endgame loot, they would have made all items BoE and not BoP.
Gdkp discords are social.
They are a community.
Their goal is to beat raids and do it together weekly.
They get loot.
The gdkp discords are much much better than your trade chat runs, it isn’t even close.
You have no idea what you’re saying.
If you have to ask, did you play TBC? Considering Warrior and Rogue were two of the most common specs in TBC and getting a glaive to drop in the first place is exceedingly rare, you probably weren’t just getting one handed to you for free.
Black Temple wasn’t exactly a hard raid that you need a couple months of progression on.
I was Manuredps, a hunter.
I was in a guild with a rogue GM and the guild was Make or Break.
My GM could of bought 1,000,000,000,000,000 gold for a main hand and we never saw 1.
#Winning
His name is Toxyk you can see he had an off hand only even in sunwell.
Their goal is to make as much gold as possible. That is the goal of the GDKP community. It was common to see 1.5million pots on Benediction back when I played there.
I am very much familiar with some of the more popular guys that did multiple GDKPs per day across multiple servers. It was their full-time job and they paid their rent by selling the gold.
No it isn’t.
Their goal is to gear up alts, 99% of the people doing gdkps are literally alts.
Most people raid in a guild on mains and gdkp on alts.
Youre wrong again.
Shocker.
They don’t want to pug raid because most of you are trash