Does anyone know if it is even possible to beat a good fury warrior in a duel? One that specs double charge and furious charge talents? It seems impossible… not only do they out damage us but 3 gap closers (including leap) make it very hard… if they have the pvp talent that makes bloodthirst clear snares and increase their speed it’s even more broken… Not only are fury wars hard to beat for me but just tanky, overpowered hybrid classes in general like Balance druids and Ele shamans… they seem to out dps AND outheal us by far. I’m a 371 BM hunter and I’ve not had this much trouble trying to actually win duels until now because the nerfs made me irrelevant when it comes to damage… i’m hitting 9ks and people are hitting me for 25k+. Even ret paladins are very hard to beat. And for marksman, they got some decent buffs but they are still SOOO irrelevant right now… those buffs hardly did anything in terms of pvp. Sure we have more damage but its not nearly as viable as BM or survival…
Of course it is. I do it all the time…
On my mage.
I haven’t played BM but they can be pretty tricky as Survival too, although I can’t say I’ve had the chance to 1v1 a Fury Warrior.
We didn’t actually get “more damage”, the damage was just switched around a bit so that Steady Shot/Aimed Shot wasn’t the entire rotation. And yes, MM sucks in PvP. We just don’t have the tools to be the melee kiters we once were. We need so many things back to be effective, I fear we never will be.
One of the big issues is that we have decent kiting tools, and we have ok damage. The problem is we have to play by a ruleset that nobody else does where we have to choose one of the other. We can’t do effective damage (as in, enough to pressure a healer or even outdamage some specs self-heals) while we kite.
Although they switched some damage around, things like precise shots are a huge issue since they still gate all of our mobile damage behind doing something immobile.
Meanwhile boomkin are hopping around handing out instant cast 20ks+ like they’re candy.
Thing is MM has a SLIGHTLY better kiting toolkit than BM but at the cost of a pretty strong heal/dispel. Currently we are behind in self healing, kiting, AND damage with both of our range specs. I don’t think hunters should be strong in all three, but we should not be weak in all three either. There isn’t a melee in the game that can’t stay on top a hunter. Stun the freedom. Rogues, Paladins, DH, and DKs all have ranged snares that trump ours easily. Fury warriors, DKs, feral, DH, and rets all have insane self healing. I feel the only spec we have a chance at currently is an arms warrior due to their lack of self healing. I’d don’t put a lot of weight in 1v1 as it shouldn’t be the final say, but historically hunters have been kings of kiting and this is the absolute worse I’ve ever seen our toolkit to do that. Once you get into a 2v2 or 3v3 scenario where the hunter has to use concussive shot as a trap setup it is IMPOSSIBLE to get melee off you. I think mobility needs looked at more than hunters getting more tools at kiting. Up time needs gated. Melee should not have the up time they currently have. I have literally use posthaste (%50) + cheetah(90% and yes I know they are not additive) WITH concussive shot up on the target and they range snare me enough to close the gap easily. That is not okay. A basic snare should not trump my 3 min cd AND a ability I have to talent into that has a decent cd (longer cd then the snare used to counter it).
And as for the hybrids our issues only increase. Their self heals dominate ours hands down. Like the guy above said instant 20k are normal for A LOT of the hybrid classes, not just moonkin. My pet MIGHT crit for 10k when hes not in africa cc’d. I fought a spriest who literally cast VT and SW:Pain on me and my pet and spam healed himself. It completely shut me down. My pet died because mend pet couldn’t keep up. I tried to heal myself and it was dispelled. I was doing 7k+ dps into this guy and he healed through it just fine. This goes the same vs really any hybrid.
Locks I have a very short window to win. I can win, but it favors them tremendously. Mages I do good against for the most part. Frost can be extremely frustrating.
I enjoy dueling alot and hunter in my experience has the tools to beat pretty much any class if played right across all 3 specs.
For your question about fury warrior, you can pretty much guarantee a win in MM spec with camo and sniper shot. It’s worked for me to open from 65 yards, turtle his leap + charge, then reacquire maxrange and just kill. Same strategy versus DKs atm, no reason to play BM over MM versus DK and survival will just get shredded in melee range.
Versus many hybrid casters BM damage doesn’t cut it, so SV with a ferocity pet usually works better for ele/boomie/spriest duels. It’s hard to die if you don’t want to with camo reset and the option to just eat to full in traps if you want to tryhard.
How do you 1v1 a rogue or DH?
An across the board trick vs. DH/rogue or any non-pet class really is trap -> feign death and eat to full if you want to play dirty and save exhil/spirit mend. Also intim stuns through dodge effects like evasion so you can use that to force a trinket into a full trap.
Fighting rogues I’ll send my pet ~40 yards away from me so it can’t get sapped easily. As BM I have 2 resounding protections (28k absorb at start of duel) so I can usually sit opener. Once opener ends feign -> explosive -> disengage will create maxrange and you can just kite and bleed from there. As SV the fight goes pretty similar but instead of trapping out of opener you can either net and bandage (or eat) or trap and bandage/eat (if gnome), prefer to force evasion kiting with cheetah +MC + eagle after the first CC.
DH is one of our toughest fights rn though, you won’t kill a skilled DH who’s traited right simply due to BM’s lowish damage but you can play to stalemate with trapping/eating/resets. It’s certainly a winnable fight as SV though, as both specs alot of beating DH 1v1 comes down to staggering or stopping stun + beam, try to pre stun it or tracker’s net it causes them to lose alot of momentum.
Hopes this helps ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Sure it ain’t easy just run away and shot and hope for the best
Sorry, my first response was to the MM part of the first post. I carried that context through for the question.
Yes, with intimidate and the much better healing both BM and SV have, and the better mobility SV has it makes it much easier, though its still quite difficult. Any rogue will just trinket trap and kill you easily within 30 seconds before it comes back up. Explosive/Bursting/snare/tar trap are all useless because they have seemingly infinite gap closers. Since we no longer have Hunter’s Mark (at least I don’t take it) it is too easy for a rogue to reset the fight, which is always to their advantage.
Ah, I think your only chance as MM against those two classes is if the DH is bad or the rogue is outlaw.
If the rogue trinkets trap, pop burst to bait evasion then intim stun through it, puts him behind a ton. They have step on a 25sec CD, it’s far from infinite. You have HE trap, disengage, and 2 CC’s to rotate through. Pairing HE and Disengage will usually force a sprint, vanish, or step usually in combination. Once he reconnects he can either trinket trap and get stunned, or vice versa, or sit both. In any case you can get decent range from those CCs and he won’t have step for ~20 sec.
DH are definitely harder to kite but since the vast majority of them run fel eruption, they don’t have a slow and again if traps land properly they won’t have a ton of uptime on you.
I really was talking strictly of MM. I have had much better success as BM, though its still rough.
Also, they have much more than just Shadowstep. They also have Shadowstrike which is the same thing while stealthed, and they have many things that put them back into stealth or give them access to stealth abilities. They also have things like Death from Above and shuriken toss which gives them even more range. They are ridiculously difficult to shake.
Both they and DH are effectively impossible for me to beat atm as MM. I can do it on my mage with some regularity, though it still ain’t easy.
I really should play my rogue.
1v1 or world pvp if you do not initiate combat with a target from an initial distance, you’re done. It’s even worse fighting people with a self heal, more mobility, higher dps burst… actually that’s everyone.
MM is the worst. That 2-3 sec cast is dumb
I’ve done quite a few duels/pvp with MM against fury…they have way to much sticking power to you unfortunately. I’ve beaten some (mostly with help from engineer fear belt). It’s tough. Hit like a truck and hard to get away from.