This is why I liked the Dinar system in SL but tweak it. We couldn’t just buy the Sylvanas bow, but you could upgrade it if you had a nonfated one to fated normal, then you could upgrade it to heroic or mythic if you had enough of the heroic or mythic gear upgrades(can’t remember what they were called).
If Blizz did something like that, where you could buy the piece of gear and then upgrade it with the tokens you get from killing heroic and mythic bosses, I think that would make things easier. I’d argue for some tokens for normal to upgrade stuff from lfr to normal.
I totally forgot I can’t get it from the vault now because we’re 7/8 Heroic working on Rasz so it’s not even eligible. We have another BM Hunter in our group and I’m seriously considering swapping to MM so I can just craft myself Ol’ Smoky and be done with it. This way, at least, if the bow does drop it’ll just be a pleasant surprise instead of an item my entire spec hinges on.
That is incorrect, until you kill a boss per difficulty, their loot is locked from your vault and will never drop in it. The only exception to this rule is the tier sets, you can get tier in vault from any boss even if you’ve never killed it. If you never kill Heroic Raszageth, you will never ever see a Heroic Neltharax in your vault. Anyone who has a Ras bow and hasnt killed the boss got it in their timewalking/m+ event boxes.
I am 100% sure that is incorrect. Last week, my Evoker friend had Heroic Kharnalex in the first slot of his vault and he had only killed the first four bosses on Heroic. There are also many screenshots on Reddit of people getting Great Vault options from bosses they either haven’t killed at all, or haven’t killed on that difficulty.
That being said, I vaguely remember someone from Blizzard saying any loot is possible, but it’s less likely if you haven’t killed that boss. I don’t know if that was specifically a SL thing or a permanent thing though.
You say this with such certainty, when there’s proof otherwise.
I’m literally wearing a heroic trinket from a boss we never killed in heroic, until after the week I got it in the vault. And I have guildmates who got non-tier heroic ras loot in their vault, when we hadn’t killed it yet. And while I can’t 100% prove it’s credible, I’ve heard people getting the heroic bow in their vault when they were only a few bosses into heroic. Vault… not loot boxes. And I’m pretty certain it’s not a bug.
The only part I’m not certain on, is how mythic raiding vaults work. I believe that one actually requires per boss unlocks, but I can’t say for sure.
Well, there are hunters (myself included) who raid 12 hours a week at the highest level. Including sacrificing prime family time on weekends (… including Xmas Eve and New Year Eve). This excludes hours spent studying kill videos and setting up weakauras. Consistently killed LFR/N/H Raz every week, including spending an extra day just banging heads against H Raz to get that kill early the moment raid released.
Never got the Raz bow. Not even LFR bow. So imagine how that feels?
Again, not just me but let’s go by statistics. That bow has 1-3% drop rate. 97% of the hunters out there even at the highest level of commitment have not obtained that bow.
It’s not good design. If you don’t have the bow… you are as good as playing with 0 tier set bonus. At least there is creation catalyst for Tier. There’s no badluck protection for Raz bow.
If you disconnect the pathway from effort to reward too much. Players get discouraged. That’s human pyschology.
I just downed Mythic Dathea. I have no desire to play anymore this tier. As a hunter without Bow pushing into the final bosses - what’s the point? Hunters with the bow already suck for the final bosses. Without the bow is even more not worth it - both for the player and the guild.
Spending the remaining time left just farming Heroic and filling 3 chances in vault for Bow. That sounds like a better use of time.
Anyone defending this loot system already has the bow and don’t have any empathy. I have the bow, and still think this loot system is completely idiotic.
And oh look, more hotfix notes with BM not included at all!
Those comparing with Sylvanas Bow is also quite mistaken. That bow just had higher stats and wailing arrow, DPS wise the Sylvanas bow was just a few % upgrade versus a regular Mythic Bow. It was a novelty but not a necessity. A few % meaning 1-3% which is already quite large.
If you compare H Raz bow to a Mythic Bow (421), you are looking at 11-15% DPS increase. That’s more than an entire 4-tier worth of bonus.
Can you imagine for CE level hunters pushing hard content where wipe and kill is just 1% difference?
80k DPS becomes 72K (just using 10% which is lower end of sims). That’s a chunk load and difference between a good (purple - orange parse) and (green - gray parse).
All that because of what? No effort? Bad play? Nope, nothing that the hunter did wrong except that he didn’t get lucky with the Bow.
Yep, exactly. Even if it had a normal drop rate, it would still feel awful to put that much power behind RNG for 1 specific class.
The worst part, is I’ve seen more low ilevel players (casual players, and alts) get the bow out of boxes, than people who actually put lots of effort into their raid/m+ hunters. What a terrible system.
Blizzard needs to either nerf the bow, and globally buff hunters appropriately… or give us some type of failsafe token system for these “very rare” items that provide significant performance boosts.
oh i know how it feels. when i was at the height of my hardcore wow days from vanilla to mop. it was during the start of mop where i was raiding 3 nights a week and went from the start of mop until the middle of throne of thunder before i got rid of a blue bow.
we would even go back and kill lei shi and will of the emperor every week as well to try for weapon but didnt get a epic bow until about 2-3 months into throne of thunder. so a total of 9 months into mop xpac before i got rid of the blue firebelcher hand canon lol. now that was heart wrenching.
i used a strength bow for most of cata because i was pugging and every time an agi bow dropped a freaking rogue needed it. one time in a gdkp this rando rogue alt outbid me by 100g, i was proper screaming at my computer monitor lol
the raz bow feels just as bad. my casual guild have killed her twice on normal - we’re usually four hunters in a group of ~12-15 - not a single bow dropped. not seen a single one on lfr either since that came out and even if it did drop, LFR is rarely less than 5 or 6 hunters since even the LFR bow is so good we’re almost forced into it to maximise our chances to get the damn bow.
my friend ran raz once with his guild as the only hunter in the group and three of them dropped. pressing F so hard.
Well I got lucky boys and got the bow from normal. I don’t even care that I have it now, don’t get me wrong I’m happy I got it. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s terrible game design, a bow (from the final boss) that is basically a requirement for a class to be competitive and a loot system that is punishing to the extreme. The Ras bow equip ability should be a talent if they aren’t going to properly fix us.
I was thinking about this as well. It completely skews logs in favor of the haves over the have nots. So this problem Blizz created has a ripple effect that effects us all.
Meanwhile SV Hunters have not had ANY special weapon. Not since Talonstrike, but Not in SL, Not in DF. We get a chance to pick up a staff the EVERYONE gets, or maybe a Polearm if your lucky, which btw, everyone gets. Also you have to roll against all who can use that weapon, which the list is just not one other class. So um…yeah.
Funny thing is we have 4 Hunters in our main raid. We have been clearing Ras normal since week one and doing heroic for the last 3 weeks.
One of our hunters has it. After week 1 he got the normal version from his Vault. Then on the M+ weekly quest he got the Heroic version well before we killed the boss on heroic. He literally had all the loot from Ras before we even pulled the boss on Heroic.
The rest of us just don’t expect to ever get it.
I like the idea of low chance good gear, but an item that seems so important to a class like this bow, really feels like it needs some sort of bad luck protection. For our Mythic progress our guild would be silly to take anyone but him for 1 hunter fights because it is worth a 6K dps difference at least.
As a number of people have said they would rather the bow didn’t exist and they just balanced us around not having it.
There is a lot of work that needs to be done for Surv, one of the problems is not having to farm and incredibly rare weapon.
Yup. For BM hunters without the bow, playing SV actually is the better ST spec. That’s assuming you can tolerate the design. I can tell you SV would have been my favourite spec if they made it ranged. I don’t enjoy playing melee. I played melee before and got my first CE on a warrior. I just don’t play hunter to play in melee range.
Another week of LFR Raz with 9 hunters in the raid; 5 of us having 400+ ilvl. I really don’t like running LFR, but I guess a silver lining is that Raz always explodes with minimal det stacks because of our gear.
But we’re also 9 weeks into the raid now and the fact that LFR of all places even has this many of one class chasing a rare item is pretty poor design.