Similar to our other threads on new Dragonflights talents, here is one to discuss the Hunter Talents that dropped yesterday.
Going to copy the same types of questions from other talent threads and post below.
Here were my thoughts on hunter talents from another thread before the Hunter talents were released:
Aside from Wild Spirits not returning, none of these things actually happened. So naturally this makes me a bit sad, because I was obviously hoping to see these things in the tree.
I think overall, the class tree is pretty lackluster, but some of the MM choices in the Spec tree are really exciting.
As a caveat, I won’t talk about Survival because I have no experience with the spec, so I’m not sure how most of their abilities even work.
One thing I do really like in the Class tree is that it is really easy to move around while skipping some talents that don’t fit your current playstyle as much. Counter Shot is easily accessible, and utility talents like Misdirection, Binding Shot, etc.
The utility in the class tree is something we have seen commonly throughout the other released talent trees, but the bottom row of the class tree seems underwhelming to me. I like the kill command talents, and the interesting choice that exists there. The Chakaram’s and Explosive Shot feel kinda… meh.
But. The MM tree.
Wailing Arrow. Light/Heavy Ammo. Lots of Aimed Shot buffs. I really like the style of this.
But I have a big concern. It feels like there is going to be less “choice” for optimization in this tree because there will be 1 ruling playstyle with Aimed Shot. Many of the other spec trees have seen a few different possible spec identities, but the MM tree feels very 1 dimensional.
It looks pretty solid.
The thick hide and improved mend pet node are EXTREMELY underwhelming and cost way too many points for how little they do, they also lock scare beast out, this line of talents will never be used in any optimal build because of how many points it cost to basically do absolutely nothing outside of making your pet tank while leveling. Scare beast shouldn’t be locked behind 6 points investment, it should either be 1 point investment or a baseline ability for hunter.
Windrunner’s Guidance looks like way too much point investment for a node on the last row to be worth it compared to getting the single point node at the bottom of the MM tree like Double tap, Trueshot choice node, wailing arrow, lock and load, etc. Especially considering you already had to spend 2 points on Legacy of the Windrunner.
Lone wolf placement is extremely bad for PvP builds since it basically becomes mandatory to get the talent to reach further down the tree since Steady Focus is useless in PvP, Quick Shot is too steep a cost for the small benefit it provides for PvP and Lone Wolf being a 1 point node makes it the optimal choice despite providing 0 benefit in PvP since MM in PvP use their pet.
Agile movement and Born to be Wild seem rather expensive. Especially Agile movement. 3 points investment for 6% movement speed. Meanwhile rogues get Fleet Footed 15% movement speed for only 1 point.
Speaking of rogues, why do rogues get to have 46 different talents in their base tree while hunter only get 38? Why the disparity in 3 points cost talents between the classes?
Druid has 46 different talents, priest has 48, DK has 44… Why is hunter getting so much less talents overall with so many 3 pointers?
There’s a good amount of flexibility with how the talent branches, can reach most nodes by going different paths instead of being locked down a single line, which is good.
It’s not gonna completely change their playstyle but it’s gonna add enough spice to it to make it interesting.
Sort of - Flayed Shot was baked into Marksman talents as a passive talent called Deathblow. And personally, I think it works better like that. Though I would’ve liked to see Lacerate return, just as Flayed Shot for Survival.
My thoughts, as per usual:
I don’t like how far down Serpent Sting is. It’s level 52.
For a core rotational spell for Survival. Like, what even. I can understand it being that low for MM and BM, cause that’s been a talent for them, but Serpent Sting is a core spell for Survival - no core spell should be that far into the game. It’d be like giving Rapid Fire at level 52. I think locking core abilities in the second row is fine, but Serpent is in the third. Lol. Even moving it up one slot, so it’s in the second tier would be better, as that would dramatically lower that level 52 requirement to 34 minimum.
I’m not a fan of the pet based talents being locked behind either Scare Beast or Traps - In particular, in PvE, I find Scare Beast rather pointless, it is a very niche ability for CC due to the beast limitation. Likewise, the trap talent the pet talents are trapped behind is just a 5 second reduction on Tar/Freezing, which in PvE will be mostly unoticeable, except if Freezing Trap breaks, or in very few niche situations.
One other CC member was annoyed Scare Beast was locked behind improved Mend as they don’t want to spec into that.
So, suggestion: Move Scare Beast into its own slot, similar to Quick Load on the Marksman Tree - just off on its own. Putting it under Concussive Shot would make a lot of sense as well, as both effectively are a form of control.
This would mean the pet talents would be locked behind Improved Mend Pet - which BM and Survival should grab anyway.
Hi-Explosive Trap is a weird choice to pair with Intimidation, tbh. Like, why is it possible for all 3 specs to spec into both Intimidation and Scatter Shot? That’s a ridiculous amount of CC time in 1v1 PvP.
Agile Movement feels… weird. Wouldn’t it make more sense to just merge that with Trailblazer? Like, Rank 1 Trailblazer - Movement speed when you haven’t attacked increased by 15%, 3% if you have attacked, then double it in tier 2. So in essence, hunters would have 6% increased movement at all times, but 30% if you havent attacked in the time. Being able to spec into both talents means hunters will be even harder to chase down. Which may be great for PvP, but as a hunter main, I know that’ll just cause even more complaints. Also, like, why on earth is Agile Movement 6% movement speed for 3 talent points? What even.
Thank you for bringing back Latent Poison Injectors - it’s one of my favorite abilities (ironic since I hate tab targeting) but I know it’s hated - so having the option is nice.
Also thank you for Death Chakram - I was so sad I couldn’t use that in SL cause it’s my favorite of the hunter powers.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/539624405190574090/995085720505032794/unknown.png
This is… not a choice. I know full well there are other CC members who disagree, but 99% of the time in PvE, Alpha Predator will win. In PvP, Killer Instinct would be good, yes, but if it’s mainly a PvP talent shouldn’t it, you know… be a PvP talent?
Like usual, the spec trees look mostly balanced. There’s a few issues here and there, but I think testing them would be necessary before I consider them an issue. But thoughts on a few other things in the meantime:
Survival: Okay, I main Survival, and I love melee Survival - anyone who knows me on these forums knows this. That said I’m very disappointed you did not add an option to make Survival work as Ranged in these trees that are supposed to be all about options. ESPECIALLY since so much of the class tree is ranged focused.
With Explosive Shot in the class tree, there were plenty of options to make half the Survival Tree ranged focused and half melee focused (similar to how half of discipline’s tree is damage and half is healing, allowing the disc a choice), like turning Raptor Strike into Black Arrow for the ranged part, and when they meet in the middle, have Carve/Butchery turn into Multi Shot if you spec into Black Arrow, etc.
I understand changes like this aren’t likely to be pushed through before launch, but just an acknowledgment that you know players are interested in this and you’ll look into it would be appreciated.
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/539624405190574090/995543376059449476/unknown.png
This is another choice talent that… is a horrible thing to do - Butchery has more damage frontloaded, but by choosing it, it invalidates like 4 or 5 other talents that only affect Carve, not Butchery. And those talents are required to access better talents, one of the talents you get negatively impacted to choose Butchery for is Coordinated Assault - our main cooldown. So we essentially have to choose completely dead talents if we spec into Butchery, in order to access better talents.
Either allow the talents that only affect Carve currently to also affect Butchery (to a lesser degree to account for Butchery’s damage/area, so like, instead of 1 sec off wildfire bomb per target, maybe 0.5 seconds, etc.) or please remove this choice talent and have Butchery be an off-shoot of Carve.
That said - I do LOVE the new Coordinated Assault - one of the biggest gripes I’ve heard is that it was essentially just a long cooldown Bestial Wrath - the new one is unique and fits Survival. I also love that the spec is more about working together with your pet. I just wish it also interacted with Butchery.
Marksmanship: I love that you returned the Wind Arrows from the Artifact, that was honestly one of my favorite Marksman abilities we’ve ever had.
The only thing that sticks out to me is Serpentstalker’s Trickery is available, yet in order to access Explosive Shot, you have to spec into Serpent Sting, meaning if MM wants Explosive Shot, Serpentstalkers is useless to them. Perhaps add some interaction with Serpentstalkers if you spec into Serpent Sting? Like, if you spec into Serpent Sting, Serpentstalkers will fire a Sting at one additional target?
Beast Mastery: I’m probably alone on this, but I like that you brought back Dire Beast. It was one of the more fun skills we’ve had - though I do hope the talent will work with Glyphs that alter what it summons.
I don’t particularly notice anything big in the thread, but again, I think playing is necessary for some of it.
Final Thought:
To be completely honest? The new trees for Survival make me think it’s time to pull a Combat Rogue and rename the Spec to better fit the motif it now has. Something to emphasize the nature of melee and working with your pet - effectively making Rexxar make sense as this new spec, as you guys have essentially retconned him as Survival in both Legion and the fact he’s the background of the survival talent tree in DF.
It would also free up the name Survival, if you ever wish to bring back a ranged survival spec separate from the melee spec if the option talents don’t work.
This is likely just a problem with the text on the blog post. Anything that affects Carve or Butchery will affect both of them. The text on the tooltip will switch.
A change has already been made to no longer have Serpent Sting be the only path to Explosive Shot.
This is great to hear. There’s a few talents that specify Carve and Butchery, so it reads that it will only affect Carve.
That said - what would the point in choosing Carve be in this situation then?
Carve hits like a wet noodle and is a cone AoE. Butchery hits pretty decently and is a true AoE. I can’t think of a single scenario Carve would be wanted over Butchery - and from what I’ve seen, people have just been wanting Butchery to replace Carve on live.
Also good to hear. 
Have you guys looked into the possibility of bringing back Leader of the Pack and Expose Weakness for Feral and Survival, so we can finally bring some raid utility to groups that our ranged counterparts can’t? I’m sure you can see how little these 2 specs are played high end in most cases (except in outlier cases like Sepulcher’s Tier for Survival making them AOE fiends), and that’s because we don’t bring utility that the raid can’t get from a ranged version of our class - and ranged is almost always better than melee due to spread mechanics existing.
Right now MM hunter has Double Tap and True Shot in ST situations. Picking the ST talents (mostly the right side of the tree for MM) they lose the ability to have both DT and TS. Is this intended? If this stays, then MM loses something they have baseline today. This feels bad.
Even swapping Double Tap and Wailing Arrow positions on the tree doesn’t make a lot of sense because then you lose DT in AOE which is also a huge loss considering it’s a baseline thing you can just do as of today.
I think a lot of stuff needs to be moved around or changed in the MM tree. I understand how important having to make a choice is for the Devs, but I think this is a bit much. Losing things that are baseline today only to have to “re-earn” them by spending a talent point feels horrible, especially in a situation where we lose a baseline ability with almost no way to earn it back unless we choose some really subpar/suboptimal build - or in some cases, it’s not even possible.
I hope this trend of baseline spells becoming talents that we have to do weird pathing to “re-earn” doesn’t continue.
Double Tap will very likely be moved to a different place on the tree and something else will be in the bottom left spot.
Survival currently has too many potential talent points to be spent, some adjustments will be made there. Also Frenzy Strikes is potentially able to be taken without knowing Wildfire Bomb, which we have to resolve.
This is not a “that’s all that is being changed” post. There are other issues to be worked out within the trees.
This is awesome! Looking forward to seeing Double Tap moved to a better place! Thank you!
Thanks for the update
I think I’d like to see Double Tap swapped with Deathblow. I would still advocate to add the Razor Fragments effect to deathblow, especially if it is moved to the bottom row. But I think the location of Deathblow is a reasonable place to put Double Tap,
I also think that with this change, Careful Aim should funnel into True Aim, which would allow rapid fire to funnel all the way to Double Tap.
I don’t feel the need to have Multi-Shot funnel to Bullseye, seeing as the row below funnels over nicely, if you don’t want to cross over routes too much.
Just wanted to mention, most communication with regards to Dragonflight Hunters will be in the Dragonflight Hunter thread, rather than this thread.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-hunters/1279513/9