Human pride

Lore Story Forum
41

Yeah the humans in Azeroth never really felt particularly underpowered.

And hey that’s not in itself a problem. My favorite faction I’m WH’s scifi twin is the Imperial Guard because I do love just normal dudes standing up against innumerable cosmic monstrosities just fine because they brought tanks the size of Omaha, Nebraska.

But in Azeroth it’s the combination of the humans general supremacy mixed with their basically decent nature is what I find to be uninspired.

Like with TES the humans are also the top dog. But they accomplished this through ruthless imperialism and genocide. Plenty of other races really hate them for really good reasons. They’re not the only pricks in the setting, humanity is more chill to the beastfolk races than elves ever were, but their hands are very red.

Like they Azeroth humans also have an Emperor, and a bunch of other races that take marching orders from them. But this was accomplished by just being some swell guys rather than anything duplicitous or violent. They just seem mostly flawless and that’s pretty boring to me.

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42

Re: Your first block. I didn’t recall there being a request for a concession, but that doesnt’ help your argument. If the Night Elves are part of the Alliance, but do not gain its benefits without people demanding a pound of flesh, that’s a reason to not be in the Alliance.

Re: Your second block. They do not contradict. There are Night Elf NPCs in the Alliance forces under Admiral Taylor. We’re not talking about adventurers being sent, we’re talking about direct forces.

Re: Your third block - If we go by actions? That is how it appears - at least where Stormwind is concerned, and it’s concerning that they again wanted to build what could be used as a logistical dagger to the belly.

Re: four - Read what Tyrande says again. Varian believes that giving up Azshara would be helpful for peace, Tyrande is reluctant, but relents. She’s skeptical that it would even work, and given Teldrassil, she was right on the money.

Re: Five - they were getting killed by Deathwing - he specifically targeted the zone in which they were housed.

Re: Six - It was a choice between the “safe” option and the “risky” one. The “safe” option was based on the idea that the Horde wouldn’t raze the tree, which again reflects Anduin’s failure to judge his opponents. This again is something to be noted when he asserts that he believes that the Horde has changed. Changed from what exactly? We don’t know - he never knew them in the first place.

Past that, even a tiny addition of forces given the situation, given how to-the-wire it was for the Horde had the potential to change the entire situation. The WoT was winnable, but the Alliance threw that chance away in the earliest moments of the fight.

Re: Seven - It’s really notable how the EK is prioritized, but the Night Elves are asked to deprive themselves of their territorial defense for the sake of pursuing Stormwind’s geopolitical objectives. This isn’t an argument in favor of the Night Elves continuing to be involved in the Alliance. It’s a statement that the rest of the Alliance sees the lives of their people as secondary concerns.

Leading me into 8:

Ah yes, patience to watch the Humans carefully secure all of their geopolitical objectives while not caring about the Night Elves’ core territories. Stormwind did not need Lordaeron to be secure. It didn’t need the Arathi Highlands either - the land bottleneck could have been established at the Thandol Span much more easily. These were wants and not needs for Stormwind, and despite that, the Night Elves went along with them before being presented with this naked power move that Anduin wanted to pull over fulfilling his commitments to his allies.

The Kaldorei were being taken advantage of, realized that, and bailed - and they were right to do so.

Re: 9 - Again, if your argument is “Stormwind can’t help the Night Elves in their time of need”, then that’s not an argument for the Night Elves to remain in the Alliance. It’s like signing up for a wine club that can’t physically ship you the wine, better to save your money. Or in this case, and leading to 10…

Better to not send your troops to secure something that Stormwind is concerned about, thereby leaving yourself open for the Horde to use a mass death event rendered on your people as a means of getting at Anduin. A Good War demonstrates just how difficult it was going to be for the Horde to do what they did - and given the terrain advantages that the Night Elves enjoy - that makes sense. They were only able to do what they were going to do because the Night Elf military was pulled away to deal with something that Anduin was worried about. I again don’t absolve Tyrande for her role in this decision, but without that decision, there would have been no Teldrassil, and Sylvanas would have been forced to look for some other way to get at Stormwind. The Night Elves were made to sacrifice their whole country for the Alliance, and the Alliance did not reciprocate because Stormwind was busy trying to secure its own geopolitical wants. That is a clear case for an exit.

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43

Guess they are just too weak willed or dumb if it is so evident.

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It’s one of about one-hundred and seventeen things that baffles me about BfA.

These aren’t posts that I like to be making. Night Elf participation in the Alliance could have been great, and could have involved them integrating their unique “kit” into the overall system. I don’t hate people for rolling humans either, and I think they deserve great content - but the situation laid out in BfA was downright abusive - both a narrative and metanarrative level.

45

Love how I can pick any random thread, scroll down to the bottom and 50% chance it’s about Night Elves now. It’s like how every thread used to be a Sylvanas thread.

Anyway, they’re like the last human kingdom that exists that anyone cares about, so they’re probably pretty cool with it.

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46

Take it up with management - they’re the ones who keep involving us in this story and in ways that piss us off.

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47

Humanity in WoW should have never been the core of the Alliance. They are, arguably, the least qualified. They are the shortest lived, they adhere to traditions of hereditary monarchy when there are several other races who’s system of Governance is either based on Democratic process or -literally- divine right.

If anything, humanity, and the Eastern Kingdoms division of the Alliance should have been the squeaky wheel of the Alliance. Jaina and the Kaldorei in Kalimdor (Both isolated from their Allies on a continent where the bulk of the Horde lives) trying to preserve the tentative peace with the Horde, while those in the EK cling to grudges of the First and Second War. Throwing the Forsaken into the Horde really just adds the 3rd War in the pot of things Humans can be mad about.

Instead, Blizzard decided that humanity is the moral compass of the Alliance, and all the other races of the Alliance exist only to make humanity look better. Not only is humanity the moral compass of the Alliance, but apparently their compass is always true and right as well, and they need to scold the other races when they are not adhering to humanity’s standards.

Because Faith and piety is bad. Wisdom earned via lifetimes of mistakes and adversity is bad. Scientific thought and democratic processes are bad. And the only Good thing in the Alliance is the Golden Haired trust fund teen who inherited daddy’s estate.

48

Try to reduce this topic to the fact that the gnomes have a bad situation bad.

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I really don’t think Blizzard is making you post the same thing in every single thread.

Impossible. Gnomes are the greatest race, who have the best presentation and lore. I’m not even kidding, it’s pretty cool.

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50

This thread is about humans and their portrayal vs other races. Since Night Elves share a faction with them, it is relevant. You can either add something constructive to the conversation, or find a different thread.

51

This thread is actually about if Stormwind humans in-universe feel pride over their accomplishments and have a sense of racial superiority, I dunno if you know that.

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52

You see? You have nothing to moan about. Moan for others. You can moan for the Trolls, Kyalin can support you, Droite he supported. I’m glad to hear the groans.

What’s the joke that the two main threats to Azeroth are the Dark Portal and the gnomes?

53

I have to be honest I cannot parse this post at all.

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54

I think to get back on topic here - I do want to add: this hasn’t been to the benefit of Stormwind in terms of its identity. Sure, they’ve been made to lead the Alliance and have been established as the anointed moral core of the story, but when you peel back the layers of the onion, you find that it’s hollow. We went from a situation where Stormwind had nobles and competing interests and controversies that made it somewhat interesting to the Mega-Blocks European Play set.

If you ask me - this could be improved by putting them in a position where they have to actually negotiate with other powers, rather than being in a position where they can dictate to them - and it would be great to see more nobles with their own interests and agendas.

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You have nothing to moan about. Moan about others. Moan about trolls. Kyalin will help you, he has already helped Droite.

The joke that the main threats to Azeroth are the gnomes and the Dark Portal. What is its meaning?

Rare · Spell · Ashes of Outland · Draw a minion. If you have at least 8 cards in hand, it costs (5) less.
Some say it’s the source of Azeroth’s greatest problems—aside from the gnomes.

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Stormwind humans are not real. So we have to look at how they have been portrayed by Blizzard in order to discern how they might feel in the context of the story. Given that Night Elves are part of the faction, and would be impacted by humanity’s sense of racial superiority should they have it, they are relevant.

If you rather the conversation be about gnomes, then talk about that. Complaining that night elves are part of the conversation doesn’t add anything.

57

Gnomes are pretty chill. I didn’t see Stormwind Humans helping out in Ashenvale, but you know who I did see?

Gnomes.

If we’re going to give the High King slot to anyone, it should be them.

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58

But what is the point of this joke? Why not blood, night elves, trolls or Old Gods, why were gnomes named in the card description?

@Valko Do you understand at least part of the joke?

59

This is even more confusing than the first post.

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60

Or you know that is just how Alliance works. That generally both sides are suppose to get something out of it. Also, this was in Wolfheart, suffice to say everyone was in bad place and everyone needed something.

And even if you ignore the player, we have gnomes and draenei sent by the Alliance helping the night elves.

A dagger to strike at the Heart of the Horde needed? Isn’t that what you wanted? The option to strike at the Horde anytime it decided to threaten the Night elves? Again, the Alliance has little to gain in the Barrens except as a way to reinforce the night elves from the only other major port it had at the time. Theramore.

That does not mean she was strongarmed. Varian talked to her and convinced her it was worth a short. Because the alternative was more blood shed in that particular moment.

And the Horde did something none of the Alliance expect/could have prepared for/had little capacity to deal with considering the events of Legion.

You are wrong. He sent forces but it was not enough:

“I’ll send a unit of Stormwind guards to assist with the evacuations in Howling Oak and wherever else in Darnassus they can. Archmage Malin, get a message to Dalaran. Tell them the situation and ask if they would be willing to join us here in Stormwind—to get more refugees through portals.”

Malin nodded.

“As for Ashenvale, I’ll dispatch what forces I can at once. Velen will have whatever he needs and whatever public space we can find to house the refugees. I’ll send someone to the Netherlight Temple and ask the Conclave priests to aid us. I’m certain Archbishop Faol will be glad to help.”

It is priorities because 4/5 of the entire Alliance was on said continent. Why would you prioritize land that is the other side of the world? Especially considering the war could be won sooner once you deal with Zandalar.

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