After playing a fair bit of fistweaver and disc holy def feels pretty clunky.
I get we are strong spot healers but it would flow better if periods of spot healing and periods of mostly dps was more defined. Like having holy shock and our damage dealers heal allies around us atonement style during burst dps, and having holy shock spread heals when used offensively
I feel less like it needs more buttons, but rather the damage buttons we do have need to do more and at the same time have less restrictions.
DPS is not our role, but equally the damage we do should at least be useful.
Light of Dawn is useless , i needs to be real AOE and heal way more , outside Cds Hpal always had issues with aoe healing , but even nowdays u have issues spot healing
u have to time your cds for incoming dmg , otherwise u are toasted and if u go late by the time u cast the CDs half group is dead
Exactly the fact we have to stand in melee for our dps as a healer should mean something. What exactly is the tradeoff compared to a ranged healer?
Any melee type healer should be able to do decent dps. If the average dps does 500k then we should do like 300k.
Make the downside of being in melee range otherwise its pointless
Completely agreed. Hpal is one of the most historically trained healers, too, so having some respectable damage could help with that in arenas especially.
No reason a disc and pres should be doing more damage than hpal imo.
Ya that bugs me alot my first healer i played in rated was a disc priest in df when the damage was off the charts. It was fun. But like u said the fact a fistweaver and hpal dont even xome close is just annoying. We take bigger risk being in melee ranged all the time we need more damage
???
Why would you want to have to generate 3 HP before you could even use your incap?
And how would it be okay to have an AoE incap available so often?
Moreover, by giving it almost double the damage of Shield of the Righteous, youâll have already removed SotR from Holy Power, so why the heck would you need to âcombineâ Blinding Light into it?
Countersuggestion:
Do not combine Blinding Light into Light of Dawn.
Do not give better-than-competing-skills AoE damage to Light of Dawn.
Instead, just buff the damage of most classwide attacks and reduce spec-specific bonuses in turn on Ret and Prot (to the same net result). And perhaps allow Light of Dawn to reduce the HP cost and GCD time incurred by your next HP-spending heal by a third⌠or simply give Light of Dawn a bit more healingâsay, split among all allies.
If weâre to have bundled damage-sustain, Iâd rather it be something that leverages our being in melee range by, say, as a Holy unique perk, having Shield of the Righteous create an absorb shield that intercepts X damage against you or allies within 5 yards, or something of that sort.
Itâs even more depressing Pres is almost as close as a COMPLETE healer with all the tool/CD/ultimate bloat and they STILL do a ton of damage. What the hell.
Yeah the disparity in damage isnât as great as it was in DF between top seed and bottom, but it still feels bad to click so many damage buttons and end up with 170k overall. Could probably push that up to 300k if I had a static group and could send my cdâs for dps more often, but its hard to send your healer cdâs for dps in a pug.
I would like to see a stacking damage buff to spending on wog or lod that increases the next sotr by 10% per stack or sotr itself adding a stacking damage debuff to the enemy. Nothing that would blow open the doors but would help out the pug hpal a bit.
Two handers are in the Holy paladin loot pool, so they canât use SotR.
You could argue that they shouldnât have access to those weapons, but thematically Paladins often do use two-handers in the lore, and they should have the option to have a spender that isnât SotRâŚ
While reducing ability bloat and revamping underused/underpowered abilities into something more useful to the spec is something Holy could really benefit from.
The numbers/mechanics I was suggesting werenât literal. Could make it another cooldown because obviously a spammable incap. would be an issue.
SoTR should really just be a Protection only spell, while Iâm suggesting Dawn of Light, which is currently kind of garbage, should be Holy Paladinâs offensive-while-still- having-some-healing spender ability.
Holy Paladin DPS is honestly pretty pathetic compared to other healers because you have to choose between using Holy Power on strictly damage or strictly healing, so something like this could smooth out their gameplay, where with my suggestion, you could drop some minor AoE healing and damage at the same time in a very Holy-esque fashion.
TBH, it would really just be simple enough to tack on a passive in HPalâs baseline passives (or early in the tree) that makes SoTR not require a shield.
Quick and dirty, yeah, but it would wrap that problem off.
Just make a pvp talent âdenounceâ a baseline ability.
u mean like 4T? that boost all the spenders but SOTR?..
we need to compare vs MW the other healing melee or maybe DiscâŚsince it heals while doing dmg too
but no pala has to choose healing or dmg when it comes to spenders.
i think is time to give holy a new dps spender that does some healing too
Holy bolt : deal holy dmg to target and heals allies in 10y , can be even a ranged spell
Kindâve like our 4pc but more just baked into the build. Make it so if you can send sotr a bunch of times in a row it actually starts to count. Just thoughts on how to improve it is all.
They can and do, are generally obliged to take a 1H and shield even if planning to ignore SotR outright, and there are even SotR-specific talents within the Holy talent tree.
Youâre describing pretty much all but Mistweaver and Discipline there.
Assume you have to use your resources âbe it time, Holy Power, stacks, or whatever elseâ towards healing 70% of the time and are free to use it towards damage 30% of the time.
Would you then rather nerf the healing of your heals to support damage therein and the damage of your damage skills to support healing therein⌠or just buff each to compete while maintaining the greater control and dynamism of discrete skills?
If you want Holy Paladins to actually be able to nuke heal or go ham with Judgesaderwrath, the discrete skills are more useful, more expressive, and more thematic than necessarily muddling our HP spenders into hybrids.
Some overlap, if thematic and expressive? Sure. But not blanket AoE damage on a blanket AoE heal. We can already talent SotR to give it additional priority damage. We should similarly (or better) aim for added focus, control, and thereby expression in our spenders in general.
Alternatively, offer Exorcism as an offensive alternative to Word of Glory and Templarâs Verdict as a 2H (and more purely-offensive) alternative to SotR, with some degree of interaction between those Exo/WoG and TV/SotR that might allow for offense to, in effect, bank towards future healing and vice versa rather than making the actions themselves of mixed purpose.
but thats not how MW or Disci works they arent 70% healing 30% dmg
they are healing 100% while doing dmg on the side, there is no only dmg phase
for MW maybe tiger palm (our crusade strike) but that can proc things that heals.
because all the kicks give some healing.
Disci , if u see a disci dpsing w/o attonements , then u dont have a healer at all.
Holy paladin having more âpassiveâ healing while âdoing loldmgâ would be nice , as melee healer , its even needed , its true that we have mostly instant heals (outside maybe MW that has instant vivifys every 10s) but even then MW has sometimes to fast cast enveloping mist procs. And some hard casted vivifys (that aoe heals thanks to invigorating mists )
Maybe its time to give holy a dps spender that feels like holy (and not prot) and its worth using for rot dmg.
Honestly Iâd like to see strictly caster paladins see some better options, maybe with something like a âHoly Boltâ talent or even some kind of mechanic that allows damage caused to be stored as additional healing on the next heal or something.
The current âstack various passive effects so your heals actually do anythingâ playstyle isnât very fun or rewarding in my opinion.
Maybe thatâs just me, but Iâm not really feeling my Paladin anymore as a long time healer. Feels like a lot of work for little reward compared to other healers.
Maybe Light of Dawn just straight up needs a rework. Perhaps if weâre meant to be âproximity healersâ it could like⌠replace Consecrate or something, where the light drops on the paladin and it heals and damages nearby targets as a HoT/DoT. Feels very Holy-like to me, and a decent HoT could feel nice between our instant casts.
I just wish we could do more damage without having to burn charges of our main healing spell to do it.
Why do we need a literal shield to even cast SotR? We create light constructs to throw hammers, drop hammers and summon swords from the ground.
I never said they did. Since when did âall butâ mean âonlyâ?
Seriously, what? Itâs like youâre quoting with a ânotâ added or removed.
Mistweaver and Disc heal through offensive abilities, which ultimately means they have no purely offensive skills and their maximum offensive potential is tuned around that fact, bringing their pure offensive potential to some of the lowest. (Though, in this regard Disc at least has more control than MW.)
Such is more an outlier than the norm so thereâs no need to copy that here. Nor would copying it be particularly thematic or advantageous beyond the simply higher overall damage (and/or combined damage and healing) dealt, which could better be supplied via tuning without muddying our spenders directly into hybrid healing+damage abilities.