but enough about ret paladins
Holy is solid in raids, okay in M+, and doing well in arena. This is the first season I’ve bothered to stay up to date with conquest farming and dipping my toes in solo shuffle and I’m having a ton of fun with it.
Ret is in a fine place, among the least complicated melee DPS specs and totally fine for that, IMO.
I haven’t played prot at all. I understand it’s supposed to be in the dumps, but I’ve healed prot paladins in dungeons and they’ve been fine. I’m planning to get a str 1h and give it a go presently, since I’m not playing the healer with poison cleanse totem or a curse dispel.
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i wish we had 3 buttons, maybe the devs would be able to balance us better.
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rets fine. try playing arms if you want button bloat
arms does have bloat
as does ret.
two things can be true at once.
at least warrior has less balancing problems and can perform better
according to most logs, ret out performs warrior on most metrics
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i dont pve, so no dog in that fight…
ah yeah i dont pvp (as much) but you’re probably right there
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We hate you too. 
Sooo, you don’t care about actual data but rely on anecdotal evidence? Got it.
You do realize----that until recently getting hit with a major nerf bat, Warriors were the number one dps by a significant margin, right?
This is why I warn of my fellow ret paladins: you DON’T want to be at the top spot of the charts because if you are, you get on Blizzard’s radar.
I’m actually a Thor fan myself, soooo…
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But don’t forget that hulk has a phd!
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just waiting to see what they will do with lightsmith for hpal. i think they forgot about us lol
Ya this is something more people need to understand when looking at tier lists always go for B or A usually safe against nerfs and most lukely to get buffed. S OR GOD tier classes are always gonna get nerfed.
And the rerollers cry so hard like what did u expect?
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Paladins are probably the least rewarding class to play in pvp.
Pallies are being taxed extremely hard for having bubble, which is a 5 minute cooldown. At the expense of being very squishy and very easy to put one CC on and put you completely out of the fight.
Pve isn’t bad, unless you want to tank. But still other classes pve better.
Paladins are like the class that has a bastard version of everyone else’s abilities. So you never quite do something as well as 4 other classes can. So you are always left on the bench.
Holy is good.
We are no Rshamans, but honestly, no other healers is until they receive flat nerfs or utility nerfs.
Compared to the disfunctional mess that was later half of DF, holy is wonderful to play again so no complaints there.
Oh well maybe just 2. LotM just got reworked and its is useless
And for some reason they decided to nerfs holy’s Sac to 2 min. It still hurts to see whole dungeons with Prots and Rets not using that spell once when they have it at 1 min.
As of yesterday it was respectively 4th and 5th.
Its 3rd overall, which is different than saying its 3rd on ST.
Do you mean when we put over the last day?
Im not sure how you are getting confused by me saying that it’s “top 3 on pure single target fights”. It couldn’t be simpler.
However that was a couple of days ago and it has dropped a place or 2, but it still stands that ret is at least top 5 on both pure single target fights. All percentiles.
It’s not just fine, it’s STRONG. People might not like the rotation or how it plays, but the spec itself is in a really good spot.
Tuning is different than how it feels.
I never claimed it wasn’t good, I said ES s**ked.
Then you mentioned it was 3rd and it wasn’t when I checked idk what to tell you. 
It might go up since some of the data option go back 2 weeks, so depending on what you select it ( 2 weeks, 1 week, 1 day) might change.
Last day show Ret second and 3rd .
Last week and last 2 week doesn’t, that’s why I was asking you what parameters you put.
Usually you don’t take all percentiles because you get some marginal outliers, 95% is a better representation all around.
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Princess - 2nd overall. 95th percentile
Sikran - 3rd overall. 9th percentile
Learn your rotation and get gear. The game is always going to be balanced around the top performers especially earlier on in the tier.
EDIT - 1 day to account for any recent patch changes/gearing
Yo chill. I didn’t say we weren’t good.
Again, I said ES su*ks, that’s all.
I know my stuff tyvm.
Thank you for finally specifying.
I’m surprised you took offense by me saying something basic like learn your rotation and get gear. I wasn’t throwing shade. Are all rets this sensitive?
It seems the loudest people are always the ones that grey parse in normal and brick +3 keys. I wasn’t implying you do though
your logs would indicate otherwise