I wanted to outline how over the years wow changed to get to what it is today with BFA. Mostly just to act as an outline of where I feel it went wrong.
The first time wow broke from the tradition of having similar rewards come from the same difficulty can be marked in tbc with the sunwell badge vendor. This to me marked the first instance of wow defeating its own gearing system by encouraging farming content repetitively for rewards that far surpass the content in question.
In wrath we saw the dungeon finder and a greatly expanded badge system. These slowly over time started to allow the apathetic attitude we see today in dungeons to flourish. It didn't happen suddenly in fact early on most of tbcs standards of minimum damage were kept in place only slowly being chipped away when kick protection was brought into the game.
Cata... was really the end of old wow in a lot of ways. The community could no longer accept the notion that automated groups could fail and the game was nerfed to accommodate that.
Then came lfr... the concept of simply afking for raid loot was born and with it any chance at returning to linear progression was lost forever. No longer would tiers be allowed to exist all was sacrificed to feed the instant gratification machine.
MoP the concept of wiping on a mop dungeon is one that is difficult to even conceptualize. The age of soloing dungeons had begun and with it the concept of warforged was brought in. After all why not have rng on top of rng it makes things fun?
WoD... you more or less got mailed epics. WoD devoted a entire expansion around the idea of making a busy and interesting world of none raiders however blizzard didn't take into account that nothing would ever be rewarding in that world with the mission table and lfr existing so it went unused.
Legion, The endless grind that could never end started and titanforging took off. Item progression now changed to a dice roll.
BFA simply took everything the other expansions before it introduced and decided that even more wacky rng was warranted.
WoW is where it is from nearly decade of slowly changing a linear game into a monty python campaign with loot raining from the sky. It finally hit the point that you can now fully gear out a new character in full heroic raid gear in little more then a day.
I can't really see a way to change it to be honest. Perhaps you could slowly roll it back over years but at this point it would take as long to get back as it did to get here.
first
It finally hit the point that you can now fully gear out a new character in full heroic raid gear in little more then a day.
What's the exact process for that?
1) Create a toon.
2) Boost them to 110.
3) Power-level the ever-living-hell out of them to 120 in a day.
4) Buy a carry?
I would love to see a new character in a full set of heroic uldir gear in a little over 24 hours of hitting 120.
10/31/2018 01:48 PMPosted by SnowfoxIt finally hit the point that you can now fully gear out a new character in full heroic raid gear in little more then a day.
What's the exact process for that?
1) Create a toon.
2) Boost them to 110.
3) Power-level the ever-living-hell out of them to 120 in a day.
4) Buy a carry?
Don't forget a healthy dose cognitive dissonance.
10/31/2018 01:48 PMPosted by SnowfoxIt finally hit the point that you can now fully gear out a new character in full heroic raid gear in little more then a day.
What's the exact process for that?
1) Create a toon.
2) Boost them to 110.
3) Power-level the ever-living-hell out of them to 120 in a day.
4) Buy a carry?
Snowfox you are still kicking after all these years?
Mostly its just mining in warfronts I am counting the time at 120. Just put on a tv show or play a second game in the back round. I used poker night 2 for my alt you really don't need to play the game.
Is there a cut and paste form somewhere that people use to make these threads. Or some kind of generic WoW complaint generator?
10/31/2018 01:48 PMPosted by Snowfox...
What's the exact process for that?
1) Create a toon.
2) Boost them to 110.
3) Power-level the ever-living-hell out of them to 120 in a day.
4) Buy a carry?
Snowfox you are still kicking after all these years?
Mostly its just mining in warfronts I am counting the time at 120. Just put on a tv show or play a second game in the back round. I used poker night 2 for my alt you really don't need to play the game.
I've done that with 6 ALTs and none of them got above 345 ilvl from Warfronts alone.
10/31/2018 01:52 PMPosted by VaeanaIs there a cut and paste form somewhere that people use to make these threads. Or some kind of generic WoW complaint generator?
I mean.. there actually is a complaint generator out there you can seed with a few keywords - I've seen people post the output from it. It's nonsensical, overall.
10/31/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Snowfox10/31/2018 01:52 PMPosted by VaeanaIs there a cut and paste form somewhere that people use to make these threads. Or some kind of generic WoW complaint generator?
I mean.. there actually is a complaint generator out there you can seed with a few keywords - I've seen people post the output from it. It's nonsensical, overall.
Here I thought I was taking a fresh new take on it. A auto generator would save quite a bit of time.
The skill prune is what really killed wow.
Anyone try playing a Sub rogue? Been cycling through my character for horseman mount and when I come by my rogue OMG is it boring to play.
In fact most classes become boring. MoP was the best, WoD was still good but Legion where they really butchered classes and now we have the GCD which make gameplay even more boring than before.
Wish they would undo the pruning of skill. That would be a good start to making this game great again.
Anyone try playing a Sub rogue? Been cycling through my character for horseman mount and when I come by my rogue OMG is it boring to play.
In fact most classes become boring. MoP was the best, WoD was still good but Legion where they really butchered classes and now we have the GCD which make gameplay even more boring than before.
Wish they would undo the pruning of skill. That would be a good start to making this game great again.
10/31/2018 02:03 PMPosted by DrolvargThe skill prune is what really killed wow.
Anyone try playing a Sub rogue? Been cycling through my character for horseman mount and when I come by my rogue OMG is it boring to play.
In fact most classes become boring. MoP was the best, WoD was still good but Legion where they really butchered classes and now we have the GCD which make gameplay even more boring than before.
Wish they would undo the pruning of skill. That would be a good start to making this game great again.
Pruning never really got to me... I suppose mages didn't loose a lot overall but the gcd change still doesn't feel pleasant even after having it since before the start of bfa.
10/31/2018 01:49 PMPosted by AkstonI would love to see a new character in a full set of heroic uldir gear in a little over 24 hours of hitting 120.
That's the thing. With the Azerite gear replacing tier gear, you don't need full Uldir gear. You can get equal if not better gear from 5 mans and world quests. You just need to get 1 piece of Uldir gear for the attunement azerite trait, then everything else doesn't matter.
The other day I hit 120 on my shaman, and was geared to do random heroic dungeons within maybe 30 minutes? And in the very first heroic 5 man I did I got a 375 proc out of a heroic 5 man. That I think pretty clearly sums up the issue. Getting a drop less than an hour after hitting 120 that is better item lvl than baseline heroic raid gear. Now, the fact that this is not a consistent experience actually proves the point that the system is broken.
And before people start raging about how you shouldn't have to live in the game to get gear, and that even people playing a couple hours a week should be able to have progression (which I agree with)...the issue is not inherently that it's quick to gear up.
The issue is that SOME people are gearing up quickly and some are not, and it has more to do with people doing equal content and getting wildly different rewards. To illustrate even more clearly, the fact that the baseline ilvl of gear goes up as the M+ level goes up is a good system! The fact that in any one of those instances one of the 5 people could randomly get a item 15 ilvl higher than his friends for no reason is the problem. The fact that targeted gear farming is impossible is the problem.
Let's look at the badge system from WOTLK for comparison. In that system, yes gearing up quickly was somewhat possible. If you spammed heroic 5 mans for a full day you could go buy a welfare epic. But that's the thing, EVERYONE HAD ACCESS TO THE SAME NUMEBR OF BADGE GEAR. So sure, you could hit 120 and then get several badge epics right away, but everyone other player is guaranteed that same opportunity. AND...since it is guaranteed gear with enough of a time sink, it is just welfare epic gear designed to be entry level so you can start progressing through bigger and better things.
Before you could set up a to do list and a plan for farming all the things you want and prioritization. Now, that is super muddied and you are largely just logging in with a very loose plan and rolling a die over and over. And your plans are wildly subject to change based on procs.
In the first raiding tier of WOTLK I had already planned out what was on paper the BIS set up for every slot, and it only changed with patches. And I spent all of the xpac up until Ulduar farming for that set of BIS gear and third trinket to swap in situationally.
You missed the real reason Wow got to where it is:
Most other companies MMORPGS were even worse.
Most other companies MMORPGS were even worse.
Are you kidding about the badges being a start of a downhill trend? You do understand drop rates for some items were in the single digit percentages to begin with. Not mounts, but like some items you needed for best in slot pre-raid or the like. The badges honestly I feel helped with progression because even if rng screwed you, you could still use badges to buy items you wanted/needed.
11/01/2018 02:55 AMPosted by MaizonoAre you kidding about the badges being a start of a downhill trend? You do understand drop rates for some items were in the single digit percentages to begin with. Not mounts, but like some items you needed for best in slot pre-raid or the like. The badges honestly I feel helped with progression because even if rng screwed you, you could still use badges to buy items you wanted/needed.
Pre sunwell yes badges filled there roll well. After sunwell they got out of control.
10/31/2018 01:52 PMPosted by VaeanaIs there a cut and paste form somewhere that people use to make these threads. Or some kind of generic WoW complaint generator?
Dear Penthouse Forums:
I'd never thought I'd be writing to you....
Soon there will be daily login rewards, just for logging in. Its coming.
11/01/2018 03:15 AMPosted by WarstrikeSoon there will be daily login rewards, just for logging in. Its coming.
Perhaps it is. I don't really think the ship can be righted I'm waiting for classic now after that. Well we will see. Everything ends nothing gold can stay.
Personally I think we're looking at this through a microscope, not a telescope.
It's not about badges, or RNG, or loot / character progression, it's about sense of accomplishment and choice.
If a character perceives only one way to progress, then that is the avenue they will take, because there is no other option.
And if that singular option is riddled with time and randomness, specifically designed to impede progress, for no other reason than to satisfy internal metrics, then this game is truly lost.
Designing a MMO is a labor of love, with equal parts science and art. Blizzard has the spreadsheet portion down to their satisfaction.
But the nuanced art of creating a world, satisfying to players and developers?
They have forgotten the face of their fathers.
It's not about badges, or RNG, or loot / character progression, it's about sense of accomplishment and choice.
If a character perceives only one way to progress, then that is the avenue they will take, because there is no other option.
And if that singular option is riddled with time and randomness, specifically designed to impede progress, for no other reason than to satisfy internal metrics, then this game is truly lost.
Designing a MMO is a labor of love, with equal parts science and art. Blizzard has the spreadsheet portion down to their satisfaction.
But the nuanced art of creating a world, satisfying to players and developers?
They have forgotten the face of their fathers.