I’m 100% for it. Every mechanic that made classes unique to other classes should come back.
The reason classes feel so boring right now is that everything is basically “Generate resource, spend resource, wait for big glowey proc.” And a large part of that is our class mechanics have been stripped away.
Seals may not have been, you know, the most amazing thing ever, but it was a part of setting Paladin’s apart from other classes, something that made them feel unique. The more class diversity we have, the better I say.
Yea, but last i recall, almost no one uses other seals when they talented Command. And Crusader was actually bugged at first, and when they finally fixed it, no one even touches it.
Of course, that’s just from what i heard from other players long time ago. The shared sentiment was not many players liked the seal/judgement system back then.
I do heard the ant-seal sentiment reach a climax when seal-twisting becomes mandatory, which might even rival the hatred towards baseline Inquisition.
I know about how Command works, but i didn’t know it was the ‘answer to windfury’. Interesting note.
Yes, but not at the expense of gameplay.
Our tank went down last night at nightmare dragons. Our only brez was a DK. And you guessed it - he needs to get some runic power first in order to rez the tank while a big angry dragon is chasing down the healers/dpers.
Does ‘need runic power’ introduced uniqueness for DK brez, which improves class diversity? Absolutely.
Does that make the game experience better? Definitely not.
That’s kind of a silly example. Especially given that the existence of a brez used to be a unique class feature.
But outside of that, the issue is clearly that the DK needs to use runic power for the brez. That’s not a matter of uniqueness, that’s just a matter of poor design on the spell.
I loved empowered seals from WOD. To be honest thats what kept me playing during that time period. Pallies were very fun. But here is the issue as far as i can tell.
It took time to get all your seals going. So in order to make the talent worth it, it was overtuned. It was a balancing mightmare. Anything less than overtunes means a DPS loss just because of how long it took to get rolling.
I’m not entirely certain I understand if you’re saying seals/judgement function like combo points, or if you’re saying they shouldn’t be so.
For the sake of clarification, I’ll just explain how they work. A seal gives a particular buff to a paladin, which does something every time a paladin uses a judgement. So for example, in early wrath when I was leveling a prot paladin, before I had the prot blessing, I was running into mana problems. So, I switched from having seal of light (makes it so creatures attacking that target heal back some) and judgement of light (makes it so you return health when attacking that target) to judgement/seal of wisdom, which did the same thing but for mana. Now, I could have had a combination of them if I so choose, so that I would get a little bit of health and mana back if one was enough to fix my mana problems.
That is the benefit behind seals/judgements, and what makes them unique. You customize your interactions with the target, based on what you want to do.
I have to disagree. In my favorite iteration of seals we had Seal of Corruption which left a stacking damage over time effect on our primary target, and we had an updated version of Seal of Command which did splash aoe Holy damage, both effects are something which in my opinion would compliment Ret very well right now. As it currently stands, Retribution’s damage rotation does not have any secondary effects outside of azerite traits/essences, and so our damage is only applied on keypress. IMO, those seals would be a positive edition to the game, NOT the seals that are currently available in Classic.
I agree with you on that part. When I talk about Seals / Judgment, I speak of the extremely laborsome and completely unfun effects from Classic which turned Paladins into Auto Attack Warriors.
If Blizzard wants to give us Seals back, 4 things need to happen first.
1.) Holy Power System stays for Ret. No Class needs another “Shadow” style redesign.
2.) Seals need to have no duration and be unable to be spellstolen/dispelled.
3.) Judgment should apply a debuff based upon the Seal you are using.
4.) Nothing changes about the current Paladin playstyle. As someone who has been here from the beginning, I have to point out that the Paladin Class has fought too hard to reclaim their strikes to lose them to a bunch of fake-Paladins with Classic Nostalgia / or ulterior motives designed to make them free HKs again.
If Seals ‘absolutely’ had to return because some Developer has a redesign itch that has to be scratched for w/e reason and will not be dissuaded to leave classes in peace. Then here are a few ideas that come to mind on how you can re-add “Seals” to the game.
Seal of Light: (Enacts Judgment of Light which functions like the talent.)
Seal of Wisdom: (Judgment increases spell-damage to the target, since Mana is a non-issue now.)
Seal of Righteousness: (MeaningfulCleave / Splash Damage with Judgment).
Seal of Command: (Deals strong single target damage, after ‘every’ swing.) Judgment is stronger if target is stunned. None of this RNG bullcrap.
Exorcism and Speed of Light should also come back in the form of cosmetic Glyphs or in Exorcism’s case standalone spell (a Talent that replaced Blade of Wrath wouldn’t be bad). Above all else however, Seals should feel like they were added ‘on’ to the existing framework.
They should not come at the expense of the existing playstyle / framework, like was the case back in Beta when Paladins saw an 11th hour redesign (which is all Seals really were. A last minute redesign.).
OP seems to be on a crusade to re-gimp Paladins. Probably got his butt kicked by one in a BG. It’s the only reason I could see that he would bump his own thread after no one gave a crap about it for 10 days. Sorry, thanks but no thanks. Hard no on seals ever coming back in any form akin to how they were in Vanilla.
No really. Holy Power and Ret as it is, is fine. You don’t like it? Tough crap. That’s what it’s been for nearly 10 years now. I moved on from Shadow Priest. If you want Seals and Judgment, Classic is there waiting for you.
Paladins do not need a stupid as hell redesign like what made me drop my Shadow Priest for Mage (which for the record, I only play because of the levels of preferential treatment shown to said class by the Development team.)
I didnt reply for 10 days because i have better things to do than forum lurk.
Im just reading notifications now, i dont wait with baited breath to prove people wrong.
And ive been playing classic ret for quite a while now and played paladin through multiple expansions, if anything im wondering why a mage is taking so much interest in my post about paladins and criticizing my enthusiasm for seals
Look, if you dont like seals thas fine but i find them to be a big part of paladin class fantasy and throughly enjoy the gameplay, i honestly just wanted to put the idea out there and see what percentage of people agree with me, which seems like im the minority
Also i dont pvp, and if you looked at my post history you would see im almost never on the forums, how much of a “crusade” can i run if ive only posted 4 topics and only 1 was ever about paladins
Thanks but no thanks to your condescending attitude, i will be ignoring your opinions for the rest of this thread.
I really hope when it comes to the Paladin that they go all in. For a long time the Paladin has felt gutted and it would be fun to be the Holy Warrior once again with the power of the light coming through in everything I do.
Agreed. The iteration of Seals in Wrath was perfect.
Bringing Mana and Healing to the Raid/Party or choosing to max DPS (and what Seal to use in that case) kept the OG support flavor for Pally’s that’s been lost since.
