In mist of pandaria, a dev stated that 1v1 the Thunder King was stronger than the lich king.
We now know the lich king was decked out in shadowlands legendaries. He was a death knight, one of the strongest classes lorewise and had multiple powerful artifact. Plate of The Damned, Helm of Domination and Frostmourne.
So was Lei Shin lighting affix really stronger than all those items or is this a retcon situation…?
I don’t really care what a dev says Lei Shin is not stronger then the Lich King.
Well, part of a DK’s toolkit relies on him raising the dead and using them to fight for him. If it’s a 1v1 and the DK doesn’t have access to that, than yeah, it makes semse that they would be at a disadvantage.
Arthas usually has an entire army at his back. When we fought him, for example, he summoned quite a lot.
Not to mention, isn’t Lei Shin like way bigger than Arthas? Like, he’s a giant construct made of stone. I feel like that would play a part, lol.
The Lich King could only create a simulacrum of life. A mockery that was inferior to the original in every way.
Lei Shen bent life to his will. He shaped it on his whim and used it to manifest his own desires.
Arthas was merely worshiped as a god by the Vrykul. Lei Shen actually wielded the powers of a god with ease.
He stole his power from a titan Aman’thul.
They both were butt kicking bosses.
I mean Lk b slapped illidan.
At this point I don’t think the Devs collectively even know the story further back than the last patch that came out, let alone enough Lore of the world to make an educated statement on individual power levels.
A person decked out in Shadowlands Legendaries vs a titan construct that stole a titans power… he was the closest thing we’ve fought to a titan before Argus
If a Dev. said Lei Shen was stronger, then I don’t think we have much to discuss.
Just because the Lich King killed the heroes back then doesn’t mean anything, or we’d be saying he’s stronger than Kil’Jaeden too.
Lich King is strong and all, but we’ve faced bosses stronger than him regardless. Deathwing, Az’shara, Archimonde. I guess only bosses weaker than him in lore have been Ragnaros, Illidan and Garrosh.
Are the Lich King fanboys still upset that people like Sylvanas and Lei Shen can wipe his undead behind on the floor again?
Short answer? He wasn’t. Citing Lei Shen as being more powerful than the Lich King was just marketing hype the narrative could never cop to.
Arthas was the most dangerous evil created of Azeroth, a weapon the Legion created to do what they could not, one even they failed to control. In the end, he was only defeated by his own hubris and an outright miracle.
Lei Shen was some dusty tinpot dictator forced to rely on Trolls, of all unintimidating, doomed minions. After he came back, he was killed not even as a major threat, but as a distraction from the larger business of the Horde and Alliance killing one another. A speed bump with some interesting loot.
Lei Shen was as beyond the Lich King as Teldrasil’s burning wasn’t committed by the most obvious, simplest culprit.
The lich king was the most dangerous being to the living. Lei Shin was a titan construct and had stolen titan powers. Most of the lich king’s tools would be powerless against him.
No, not even close. Not for nothing the same Lich King had to enter the scene to fight the Legion, decked with fully overpowered artifact weapons to face them with Titan capable of cleaving a planet in half with one casual swing.
If I recall correctly, Thrall said not even the entire Azeroth fighting together could’ve had hope to defeat Deathwing.
That includes the same heroes that Lich King defeated, Tirion and stronger bosses than us at the time like Malfurion, Jaina, Sylvanas, etc.
Deathwing was far a more dangerous threat. And I guess even Gul’dan was.
Do they even know what’s going on with the story this patch?
That being said, the whole “power levels” concept is… pretty dumb. Boiling everything down to a single metric really doesn’t do anything for the storytelling, and if anything tends to give the audience a completely nonsensical obsession over them. They add nothing of value, skew the plot in unnecessary ways, and the numbers quickly scale out of control and subsequently lose all meaning.
I’d throw in a link of DBZ Abridged lampooning the subject, but the language is just a hint too spicy for the forum rules.
… Deathwing had to be retconned back to life after the Alliance alone ground him into gibbets, and even that was just a side quest. Other than his literal plot armor, he only got as far as he did by kicking the planet in the nuts when no one was looking.
Take that away and he wasn’t even a match for Alexstrasza.
As for what Thrall said… yeah, he also said Garrosh was a good candidate for WarChief. How’d that turn out again? Despite being a “Farseer” Thrall’s uniquely unqualified to make these kind of decisions.
Deathwing was a minion. A secondary threat. A tool. A pawn. A fool, who, we know thanks to the magic of time travel, turns out could be defeated with a really good impaling. He was yet another evil dragon, inflated to carry an expansion which was largely regarded as WoW’s weakest until WoD came out.
Arthas, meanwhile, punked his bosses, out-maneuvered everything thrown at him from his own traitorous minions to Illidan, took control of the Scourge, and took to world conquest with the casual disregard of playing a game. Oh, and as for the powers that made Deathwing relevant? “Hey look! Free building materials.”
End of the day, whatever had to happen to subvert Deathwing’s Old God juice, happened legitimately, happened because of the efforts of those working against him, and happened because he couldn’t stop it despite his best efforts. He fought, he lost. Arthas?
Arthas had to be Deus Ex Machina’ed to death. No other major force we’ve had to content with can say that. The paragons of the Legion, the Old Gods and their minions… Nothing. You can beat Deathwing and the Avatars of the Titans and the Old Gods. Arthas? Only Arthas’ own arrogance and the literal most powerful force in existence can beat Arthas.
The Lich King was the results of the necrotic Manhattan Project of the immortal interplanetary doomsday army who eats worlds for breakfast. Deathwing was the brainwashed minion of a handful of failed prison inmates. The narrative and concepts at play are very clear.
Arthas was the superior villain in every way.
I thought he stole it from Ra’den because Ra’den was depressed about learning of the Titan’s deaths.
Can’t be because Lei Shen is a god right? “What is a King to a god? and what is a god to a non-believer?”
When you mean “take that away,” do you mean the retcon? Because he almost killed Alexstrasza in the Twilight Highlands.
So basically we’re going to call plot armor and call a developer liar to anyone superior to the Lich King but the Lich King doesn’t have plot armor?
The Lich King didn’t face the might of the entire Azeroth, as I am sure facing against all Alliance and Horde bosses, plus the aspects, plus the adventurers, would’ve been too much for him.
Same if Kil’Jaeden or Archimonde set foot in Azeroth and fought him. These two guys here, Sargera’s primal bosses, are also out of Arthas’ realm in power. Same with the old gods.
Arthas is far from being second to Sargeras. And had him face the heroes of Azeroth in Legion, he’d have been badly destroyed. Not the same with Deathwing or these other highly powerful bosses.
Mmmm… I don’t think we’ll get to agree then.