How to Rogue Tank

Rogue tanking, while challenging, is a ton of fun. Here are a few things I’ve learned that might help you get out on the dance floor.

Talents
I prefer the Combat tree, and I think it’s the best option for all content.

  • Improved Sinister Strike (2)
  • Lightning Reflexes (3)
  • Deflection (5)
  • Precision (3)
  • Endurance (2)
  • Riposte (1)

The key talent here is Riposte, which helps you generate a lot of extra threat for a nominal energy cost. I take precision because missing stinks, but you can probably put the points elsewhere if you want.

Runes
The only mandatory rune is Just a Flesh Wound (chest). However, I strongly recommend Blade Dance (legs) for extra avoidance and Riposte procs.

Glove Runes are up for debate. I don’t even have the MG rune, but I’ll probably pick it up eventually. For P1, however, Saber Slash is best in almost all situations, but Sinister Strike is better when enemies are immune to bleed*. Shiv is also a viable alternative, especially if you have a good dagger for it and want to experiment with quicker CP generation. Both benefit from Improved Sinister Strike talents.

Energy > Combo Points
The chief complaint I hear about rogue tanks is the loss of combo points when switching targets, especially when things go south.

But I have great news! You really don’t want to use Blade Dance, which you should have up as much as possible, with more than 1 CP. That grants you BD for 14s, and additional CPs only increase that by 4s.

Likewise, your secondary finisher will be Slice and Dice, and its duration gains diminish beyond 1 CP.

But more important than either of those points: energy is way more important than combo points to a rogue tank. You’ll need to spend it wisely to ensure you can switch targets and build aggro or kick when necessary.

What to press (and when)
Single target tanking is easy: open however you’d like (Garrote, Ambush, Face Pull and SS) and spend your first CP on Blade Dance. With BD active, spend the rest of your points on SnD. Riposte on CD.

For multi-mob tanking, however, there’s a bit more decision-making involved, and it all revolves around energy usage and Riposte procs. Here’s some info to help:

  1. Riposte costs 10 energy — very cheap, procs when you parry an attack, does NOT build CPs on the target. Should be used on CD and provides mitigation (disarm), good damage, and most importantly, threat. BD will effectively double your base chance to parry.
  2. Kick costs 20 energy — also cheap. You always want enough energy to kick if casters are around. Helps you mitigate damage, control packs, and feel like a ninja.
  3. You lose CPs when you target a new enemy, so before you smash tab, you need to ask yourself a very important question: do I need to refresh BD or SnD on this mob? If it can wait, it’s usually best to lose the CP and save your energy to build threat via SS or Riposte on a new mob. Sometimes, you just need to forgo both and spend all of your energy on SS to build initial aggro, then prioritize BD and SnD once things smooth out (just make sure you and your healer can handle the dmg).

It goes against a lot of rogue logic, but you need to prioritize energy and get used to using finishers with 1-2 CPs at most (or worse, not at all) if you’re going to reliably tank multiple mobs.

Miscellaneous
From what I’ve read, your bleeds generate the most threat on paper beyond a certain point, i.e., keeping SS stacks up and spending excess points on Rupture. I rarely get a chance to spend many points on Rupture, however. Saber Slash, Riposte, and Slice and Dice do plenty of damage.

Also, my whole spiel on multi-mob tanking goes out the window if your group members blast AoE on pull. As a rogue tank, you’re essentially the new (old) warrior, who gets energy starved and must stack sunders. It helps to politely ask your group to single-target for the first few seconds until you can pick everything up. Save your taunt for these occasions. Some groups will tell you to f-off and will pull the whole dungeon anyway. It happens, just roll with it and get that loot.

I prefer to ‘chain-pull’, by which I mean: build sufficient aggro on one target, then grab the next while DPS burns down what you’ve secured; if you wait for things to die before you grab the next mob, your DPS will be tapping their foot and chomping at the bit. You can reliably build large packs over time, so people can use their sparkly AoE moves and boost those meters. Runs become smooth with little downtime, and healers rarely go oom because we’re so good at avoiding dmg. I actually have to stop and let DPS drink more often than healers.

In some dungeons, like Stocks, I open with a sap on one target (careful, it’s expensive), build aggro on the two others in the room, pick up Sap when a) it breaks, or b) I feel like it, and then I’m off to the next room while the mobs, stricken with Crippling Poison, crawl after me.

Final Thoughts
Rogue tanking is a lot of fun, and I encourage all rogues to give it a shot. I can see Sub becoming a viable tank tree in future phases with the benefits to dodge (increased change through Ghostly Strike, extra CPs through Setup, some utility via Hemorrhage). Folks have predicted we’ll get a rune to help with AoE, possibly Fan of Knives, but I think it’s more likely we’ll get a rune that decreases the CD on Blade Flurry. We’re too good at some things to be great at everything, and that’s okay. That’s classic.

Please let me know if you think I’ve missed anything. Good luck, you scoundrels—stick em with the pointy end.

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You press saber slash until you can refresh your parry buff. Let’s not overthink this, haha.

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You can refresh Blade Dance after only one Saber Slash—no need to keep pressing (unless you miss). Thanks for your question.

Didn’t ask a question, I made a comment.

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Thanks again for your interest in rogue tanking. Let me know if you have any more questions, I’m happy to help.

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Didn’t ask.

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Wow ur so cool

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:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Can I ask why you think so?

Because he took sinister strike off the bar and doesn’t want to deal with it for the first boss.

Ay there pardner, I didn’t ask you specifically, y u replying?

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I suppose you probably get a little more damage from Sinister Strike in this situation, so it’s likely the better option. None of the other runes offer any real benefit; maybe Shiv, if they’re not also immune to poison. Thanks for pointing that out—I’ll edit the OP.

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On the first boss specifically shadowstrike’s better to initiate the fight. Also if someone screws up and you fly into the air - you can ss back to the boss mid-fall with vanish. But in general - I guess bleed-immune enemies is the reason to take that MG.

Outside of Riposte, Imp SS, and Precision, Combat at lvl25 really doesn’t offer us anything worthwhile. Nothing hits hard enough or consistently enough to warrant sinking so many points into raw Avoidance.

Just go into Assassination after you get your two points into Imp SS and run a standard DPS Rogue build, swapping runes when you need to do anything kinda-hard-hitting.

At lvl40 it will make more sense to go deep Combat since we can then get a weapon spec, Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, and the extra hit, expertise, and damage on our primary skill. Alternatively, it may be preferable to get improved Slice and Dice and only snag Blade Flurry. Or go deep Assassin because Gnomer isn’t threatening and we can stack a ton of Crit. This is all dependent on our new Runes as well.

Regardless, Rogues should prioritize offense/DPS/TPS over Avoidance right now. Our Runes make us uncrittable and take less damage, that’s all we really need if we’re wearing a semblance of level appropriate gear with raid buffs.

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You could have just thanked me instead.

Maybe next time, buddy. Maybe next time.

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That might be true for tanking bosses in BFD, but Riposte is the main reason to go Combat, especially in dungeons. It does great damage, provides mitigation, and it doesn’t cost very much energy.

Edit: I should clarify, I’m happiest that I have Riposte when I need to get snap aggro on a mob when tanking packs.

Thanks for writing this up!

I don’t play a rogue, but it was still really fun to read!

It really is more of a treat than a primary source of threat. The CD is far too long to be meaningful beyond the first target you smack with it on a pull. 6 seconds later you might get another one off on the 3rd or 4th target, assuming you’re still holding anything beyond the first two that have already died.

It being single target is its biggest drawback for the exact situation you’re suggesting. We already have quite a bit innate Parry so it isn’t as if we suddenly have a surge in Riposte procs on AoE compared to single target.

We’re very likely to get some version of Fan of Knives in one of the Rune updates as well.

Yes to damage and cheap cost, no to mitigation.

It isn’t mitigation at all, it is avoidance. Dodge/Parry/Miss do not reduce damage taken directly, but rather allow you to sometimes outright avoid damage taken entirely. Armor and Runes are our only source of mitigation.

There will be a time at lvl60 where tallying up our total Avoidance will matter, because we’ll be pushing the hard cap of true unhittable, but until we get there, Avoidance is more of a bonus, not a primary focus.

Riposte is mitigation in that it reduces the damage of weapon-wielding monsters that can be disarmed.

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