How to let players control secondary stats without reforging!

So the new optional crafting mats allow crafters to control what secondary stats they get without RNG, which is great! But how could you give players the same control with quest items and drops? In the past, the devs have tried reforging, or items to reroll secondaries, but I think I’ve got the ultimate solution!

Gems and enchants.

Okay, haha, that’s already something that exists. But there’s a twist. Right now, a ring with crit and mastery just has with those two stats and there’s nothing you can do about it. Well, what if the base ring just had Stamina and a gem slot or two? Okay, now you think you have to buy gems for every item. BUT, what if it also came with a random gem already IN the slot and a random enchantment? The power of the gem & enchant would be based on whether it’s green, blue, or epic.

So we still get random secondaries on items, but all of the secondaries are replaceable! Players can CHOOSE to pay extra to completely customize their secondary stats. Item stats are still RNG, but a player’s final stats are still completely deterministic. And unlike reforging, you don’t need a math degree to figure out which stats to replace (especially without hit, expertise, parry, and dodge hard caps).

For non-JC items, they can still have gem slots, like belt buckles, bracers, weapon hilts, etc. But there could also be other types of modifiers made by other professions. Belts, boots, and cloaks could have tinker slots for BoE Engineering items. Chests, Legs, Hands, and Foot items could have Armor Kit slots. Smiths, Leatherworkers, and Tailors could make various types of armor kits. Shoulders, helms, and weapons could have Rune slots for Scribes to create runes for. Cloaks could have spellthread slots that tailors make threads for. Alchemists could make permanent oils to cure weapons. Weapons could have counterweight and weapon chain slots. For ranged weapons, there could be dedicated scope and ammo slots.

For all these different permanent slots, drops and quest rewards would come with random items already in them. Many would also come with random enchantments already on them. A neat side effect would be that new players would be encouraged to see filling gem slots as normal and would be more likely to look for such items. It would also make item mods really common and excellent quest rewards.

I think this would not only greatly help professions be more viable, it would give players complete freedom to customize their secondary stats however they want. It also means you can upgrade any green or blue simply by putting better items in its various slots. And if blues can be upgraded to almost-purples, maybe we can steer the equipment ratings back down to where greens and blues were actually viable items and purples meant you were doing very high level content. Welfare epics make high-level items feel really boring. Basically, if an item doesn’t have “Heroic” or “Mythic #” tags just under the name, it probably shouldn’t be an “epic”. No profession should be able to make more than 3 or 4 “epics” in an expansion.

Hell, even give whites slots, and let’s kick everything down a level. (And make whites moggable.) After all, why shouldn’t the most common of quest items or the first gear you make at Blacksmithing (1) be “Common”? There’s really no difference between whites and greys anymore, so why not make whites the baseline gear? Then greens replace blues as dungeon boss drops or storyline-end rewards, and blues replace purples as mid-level dungeon and low-level raid loot.

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I dunno about the whole Commons being valuable items thing, or about ‘slots’ for item upgrades (at present, most item upgrades by their existence imply a slot), but some of the specificity you’re looking for appears to be on the docket for Shadowlands professions. Check out some info on that, if you haven’t – might check some of the boxes you have for professions.

I am personally cautiously optimistic. Although, having said that, it would be difficult for professions to get worse than they have been in BfA.

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No, I know about the optional mats for professions. This was about quest items and drops. Basically, make most or all secondaries on items work like gems so that players can replace them at will. When you get an ring, for example, it might have 2 gem slots with random gems already in it, and that’s where it’s secondary stats come from. Replacing the gems lets you customize your gear. It’ll also massively boost the profitability of professions.

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Ah, I see. I apologize for misunderstanding. My eyes don’t do so well with white text on dark backgrounds – I tend to have lines of text blur together and that can make me inadvertently skip lines or not even be able to read full paragraphs at all, so if I missed that detail in your OP, I assure you I didn’t mean to skim it or ignore information you provided.

The only concern I would have about that is the weight that it would give professions. How would one balance it? Would those stat-changing resources come from only one profession? If so, I think you’d see a lot of people taking that profession and the cost of items/materials for other professions rising as a result. If it was from every profession, I don’t think there’d be much incentive to craft them for sale on the AH, since every profession could make the needed item.

That’s a tough-as-hell element to balance. I could see some kind of hybrid-spread model for it, though. Maybe only LW could make the needed items for Leather/Mail, Tailors for Cloth, Blacksmiths for Plate? Then maybe JC for Rings/Amulets and Scribes for Weapons/Trinkets?

I’d have to give that a lot of thought to ensure I wasn’t creating a problematic profession balance in the process, I think.

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I usually highlight lines while I’m reading. It helps me stay on track. :slight_smile:

There would be different kinds of sockets. So a JC would make gems for rings, necks, belt buckles, and scopes. A LW could make armor kits for those slots. Scribes would make runes for trinkets, shoulders, and helms. Basically how there are gem sockets and cog sockets on Engineering gear. You can’t put a gem in a cog socket or a cog in a gem socket.

Some items would have many possible socket types, especially weapons. Weapons could have weapon oils, potions, gems, handle wraps, counterweights, weapon chains/lanyards, or scabbards. But a green sword you get from a quest would only have 2 total sockets.

Engineering: Tinker slots on some belts, boots, and cloaks. Cogs for Goggles and Trinkets. Scopes which are made with gems for lenses.
Tailoring: Spellthread slots on cloaks and pants. Armor kits for cloth chest, legs, hands, and feet.
Leatherworking: Armor kits for Leather & Mail Chest, Legs, Hands, and Feet items. Maybe Leather-bound Grips for weapons?
Blacksmithing: Armor kits for Plate Chests, Legs, Hands, and Feet items. Shield Spikes and Reinforcements. Counterweights. Weapon Chains. Belt Buckles.
Jewelcrafting: Gems, obvs. Also Sockets that can be added to Rings, Necks, and Helms.
Alchemy: Weapon Oils. Potion slots on Off-Hands and Staves. Transmuted Gems for Wands.
Inscription: Runes which can be applied to Shoulders, Helms, Bracers and Trinkets.
Enchanting: Exactly as it is now.

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You know… the more I read this and think about it, the more I like the concept. I mean sure, it creates some economy bloat, but I think when choosing to go for a fully deterministic stat option based in professions, that’s kind of okay, especially if items come pre-assembled (that word choice took me a minute, tbh).

After all, I’d much rather have a wide array of useful and marketable items to sell than a narrow or non-existent one.

I like where your head’s at with this. I think it might need some design iteration and probably some more structured balancing (to ensure that professions are individually about the same in terms of marketability), but it’s good in concept and seems easy to understand.

The only thing I’d outright change is the inclusion of Alchemy. I just don’t really think it’s necessary to make Alchemy a marketable skill in this way. Alchemists will always have an income with consumables, and as long as that remains the case, I think that’s okay.

The item slots you currently have assigned to them could pretty easily slide into Inscription’s wheelhouse, especially given the Death theme of Shadowlands and the fact that we’re going to be meeting the Runesmith.

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I definitely meant to add weapon runes to Scribes! A weapon could easily have 2 or 3 rune slots, especially 2H Swords and Axes.

I see what you mean about Alchemy, though. I think it would be a very uncommon slot. My thinking was that bladed weapons could have magic oils that keep them sharp, and certain types of off-hands like lanterns could have oils for them. Especially if the oil could change the color of the lantern! But you’re definitely correct that Alchemy doesn’t NEED the help.

Or, you know, Alchemy and Inscription could make dyes that change the colour of items. Purely cosmetic, but I bet it would be really popular. Especially if it meant items from different sets would match better. :slight_smile:

To help with bloat, gems or other sockets could also be quest rewards or trash mob drops. And they could drop from treasure chests the first time you open each chest. And there could be poor-quality gems available from vendors that are ~25% worse than crafted greens. Like how you can buy 16-20 slot bags from many NPCs.

That would help keep the price of greens down, but epic sockets would still be HIGHLY sought after!