You can still chain pull when the initial pack gets low, but pulling 2-3 packs at a time is not the only answer.
My only gripe with “kiting is required” is that it is not. Like you said kiting helps with large pulls, but those large pulls are optional. It would be one thing if the only way to time is with big pulls, which is just inaccurate.
Make mobs unkittable if you jump away you get hooked back. That will permanently solve the kiting meta forever
i think people just hate certain affixes tbh. cuz on weeks like this one, and next necrotic week coming up, you’re going to be kiting a LOT.
tanks have been kiting since vanilla. we used it in the general drakkisath fight, we used it on kel’thuzad, we used it in WotLK, Legion etc. there’s no “meta” really. it’s just tanking lol
Make damage mitigation relative to how well your class can kite. If you have extreme kiting ability like DH, then you take more damage. If you have very little kiting ability then you take less damage.
How will this translate to bosses?
i get what you’re saying and i believe you, since you’re a tank.
Well one problem is easy: Get rid of AOE enrage mechanics (looking at you Crane Matriarch and Vampire doggo tamers)… sure a group can and should have a soothe, but soothe isn’t an aoe remove, so why give the mobs an aoe apply?
Kiting used to be the exception not the rule, the kiting meta more or less started in MoP challenge mode but really became mainstream in M+
I and (I would like to think) most people don’t have a problem with the idea that sometimes tanks have to run away to avoid big attacks or keep special mobs from being able to hit them.
The problem is that damage is tuned to the point where you have to run every pull or use major cooldowns on every pull in M+ if you don’t over gear content.
I definitely agree that most tanks don’t know how to handle the afixes in M+ not just the ones that force them to kite but that’s really a problem with most players not really knowing how to play well.
You are supposed to stun the enrage cast, which is relatively slow.
well yeah…paladins and DK’s for the longest time had issues with mobility and weren’t even able to really kite at all. so that was a gameplay feature that improved tanking for a few classes. i wouldn’t say it was mandated at that point to kite - but tanks found that it was a niche skill that made life a lot easier on them - and specifically the healer.
anyway, do people have this illusion that tanks are just kiting for 40 minutes every mythic+ run? cuz they’re not. they’re doing exactly what you described…sometimes on some pulls they have to move a little…sometimes they can sit there like a potato…
this week it’s kite heavy - weeks upcoming - maybe not so much. there’s only really a “kite meta” on specific affix weeks. otherwise nothing has changed lol 
almost forgot the nerd smilie -.-
We come back to the problem of role of the DPS. If dps rotate their utilities with the tanks and healers defensives, you can face tank virtually every. The thing about shadowlands mythics is that it really emphasizes group play and everyone has a purpose. You need to coordinate to feel smooth and I don’t see a problem with that.
Hi - Long time player, and I know the root issue.
The kite meta is due to runs having a timer. Timers should be removed.
Otherwise, in olden days when trash hit that hard, we cc’d. Can’t do that now because it would take too long vs AOE + kite.
Timers create so many problems on both a micro and macro level of the game. Between cutting viable strategies in half, shifting the group culture, isolating classes/specs from content, placing more burdens on tank…not sure there is enough gain to warrant this constraint.
They could keep timed runs but only for achievements
no it’s attributed to the affix not the timer. without the timer - on certain affixes, you’ll still be required to kite enough to defeat whichever one you’re facing.
Long time experience in previous expansions do not translate to current events. With that said, over the course of the thread we talked about how you can time it by pulling pack by pack as long as everyone is clean with the mechanics. Incuding +15s.
Now if you go beyond gear scaling like +18 then sure you will have to pull big and kite more.
There should always be incentive to pull bigger. The only thing left to learn in these dungeons after you do them for the first couple of months is “how do i add more packs to this pull and how do we survive it.”
otherwise, it’s boring as all hell. who wants to pull 1 pack at a time? makes no sense. lowering the skill ceiling just to satisfy a few people who cap out at doing a +2 every week is horrible logic. you increase time played metrics by giving people ways to improve.
not flaunting experience vs recalling a time of dungeons being challenging, but we didn’t kite (or at least, it was an option vs a requirement) and the major difference was we didn’t have timers.
and honestly - I swear it required more skill because we used our full toolkits but eh. Trading one difficulty for another, I’m sure.
Before someone gets all heated about the idea of their play style changing, all I’m advocating for is the opposite…to open up for more play styles. You want 5min runs? you go pull half the instance, that should be your choice. Slow and steady on a Saturday night with some dads drinking a beer and yelling at each other for doing dumb things, not cc’ing, etc? but still get to finish 6 hours later…that should be an option too.
i think it can be done on certain dungeons but i am gonna say you probably won’t finish tight timers like Sanguine, DoS doing pack by pack at a +15. no way.
btw if any of you wanna time +15’s don’t do pack by pack…lol…use cooldowns like bloodlust and such to pull big packs when you can - and be organized with addons like MDT (my advice)
The point is that it is doable and timable. You are right, how can I improve myself to pull bigger and more efficiently. With that will come with different challenges and strategies. The argument is that kiting is required to time, even on lower keys.
I wouldn’t say the problem is “kiting is bad.” In my opinion, tanks have enough to deal with between planning the route and doing it EXACTLY right, getting all the aggro, positioning properly, interrupting, stunning, dealing with affixes, staying alive, etc. Why add more like “when/where/whom do I kite?” Tanking shouldn’t be this much extra work above other roles; this is why there’s a tank shortage.
Running away, otherwise known as kiting is a viable tactic. It always has been, and it should still be.
It does. Not even VDH can do its rotation while kiting.
No this is a terrible idea and forces static standing still gameplay or just full ranged groups with a tank exclusively there for bosses.
The combination of tanks not being unkillable and adding mechanics to force them to move means kiting is inevitable. The solution to this is give those without instant disconnects, like roll, leap, and charge, additional utility to either slow the mobs they need to kite or to increase their ability to run away. The changes don’t even need to be drastic and could be baked into talents or abilities that are already existing.