How To: Get Rid of Voidform

Classes Priest
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This is a repost because the new forums did not transfer my original post.
X-Files music

Voidform is the root of all problems with Shadow right now.
The solution is simple. Kill Voidform.

Issues with Voidform include:

  • It adds an unfun ramp-up which we cannot control , we can’t delay it like a burst cooldown, but it completely controls our gameplay, removing our agency

  • It sucks up a colossal amount of our power budget without adding anything fun to gameplay

  • It feels clunky to get into, we have to build up 100 Insanity, then cast a spell , we are a wet noodle without it

  • It feels like no dev has ever entered Voidform, we are constantly waiting on Mind Blast and Void Bolt cooldowns which don’t align and cannot be delayed , interrupting or not even bothering to cast Mind Flays inbetween these casts

There is nothing enjoyable, fun, or challenging about Voidform. The only redeeming quality is the better cast animations and appearance. The solution to that is simple, replace Shadowform with Voidform animations and levitation : a visually upgraded Shadowform that is persistent.

What would this require?

  • Remove Voidform (damage and mass hysteria effect)

  • Remove Void Bolt (requires Void Form but just stating this for the record)

  • Remove Void Eruption

  • Remove Insanity

  • Remove Mania (requires Insanity)

  • Remove Lingering Insanity (requires Voidform)

  • Remove Legacy of the Void (improves Voidform)

  • Remove Dark Ascension (enters Voidform)

  • Remove Surrender to Madness (empowers Voidform)

Won’t this require years of rebalancing damage output?

Nope! I did the math. It’s done. I want this to be as easy as possible for the devs to try - and a key part of my proposal is that I have already done the hard work.

Here is the Math (new forum doesn’t allow links, put ‘docs.’ before the link):

docs.

google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OJL3V2R93c5Stj-MdeYbvM01xjeBPAC1ZwJ3G6GaSPk/edit?usp=sharing

What this means is that after removing Void Abilities, Voidform damage and haste, the devs should buff all Shadow spells by 54%:

This includes spells like:

  • Mind Blast / Shadow Word: Void
  • Shadow Word: Pain
  • Vampiric Touch
  • Mind Flay
  • Shadow Word: Death
  • Shadowfiend / Mindbender
  • Shadowy Apparitions

Is this a sneaky Shadowpriest buff?

No. This would produce the ~exact same DPS we have today. It is not a buff or nerf to Shadowpriests relative to other classes. We would remain in the bottom half of the DPS spectrum.

However, from a development standpoint, I might recommend buffing us only by 50%, rather than 54%. If it appears we’re underperforming after a couple weeks, give us the other 4% (or whatever is appropriate).

House Cleaning

The aftermath of the above does have an impact on some talents which require Insanity or Voidform to function. I feel obligated to clean house by offering ideas for affected talents, but I don’t want this to be the focus of this post.

Voidform must go, that’s what matters here.

Replace Mania with Spectral Guise , one of the cooler Shadow spells ever made, mistakenly deleted, now restored

Replace Lingering Insanity with The Quickening : gain 5% haste passively, and gain an additional 10% for 5 seconds when a target you recently damaged dies (does not stack).

Replace Legacy of the Void with Devouring Despair - Each cast of Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death grants a Shadow Orb. Devouring Despair consumes 3 Shadow Orbs (max 5) to deal damage every second for 6 seconds, and heals the Spriest for 2% of max health per second

Replace Dark Ascension with Dark Archangel - Grants you cosmetic wings and 20% increased Shadow damage for 12 seconds, on a 60 second cooldown

Replace Surrender To Madness with Clarity of Power - Your Mind Blast becomes an instant cast, and your Mind Flay is replaced with Mind Spike. Mind Spike removes your DoTs, but increases the damage of your next Mind Blast by 20%, stacking up to 5 times.

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OMG Yaaaasssss

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I dearly wish this would happen but I don’t think the devs will do it with 8.1 this close :frowning: I’d also love to have renew/instapom/flash heal back. Yes I get the theme of shadowmend for shadow I just miss being able to cast flash heal and get interrupted by melee then being able to free cast shadow spells in their face.

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Fantastic! Let’s keep this thread going forever and ever and ever (or until Blizzard is pressured into making the correct changes, eheheheheheheh).

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They won’t remove VF because it runs with Alleria theme and the Void elves.

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Oooh that Clarity of Power talent looks fun. I always loved Mind Spike.

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Regardless of how powerful it is currently… am I the only one who has felt like a bada** for two expansions when shifting into Void Form? I feel like it’s unrealistic to think Blizzard is going to remove the (for better or worse) core mechanic of our rotation.

It is also probable that I am judging only a specific build of the spec. I mostly pvp, I don’t raid, and I constantly run reactive/proc talents (shadowy Insight, SW: Death) as well as War Mode and Void Origins.

A cast time on Void Eruption feels terrible… but I would miss it if the entire mechanic was trashed. I’ve been playing Shadow since vanilla, and we have a far more interesting rotation than ever before.

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The issue I have with that, is that there are no Shadowpriests in the Void Elf storyline.

If the Void Elf story was all about the world’s Shadowpriests exploring the Void, and Alleria leading her people into it - this reasoning would make sense to me. But our entire spec is apparently completely irrelevant to this story.

Further, they went out of their way to say about Alleria, ‘No one has ever mastered the Void like you (Alleria) before’, and they said that to Shadowpriests completing the quest, while I’m standing in Voidform right next to her - while I’ve had Voidform an entire expansion before her, and babysat an Old God all last expansion, and had Void spells longer than that.

That’s a very deliberate effort to tell Shadowpriests we’re completely irrelevant to the Alleria & The Void story. The Void is her story. Voidform Priests are apparently non-canon.

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I’d say this is a good thing, because it lets them split off the Void theme from Shadow again while keeping it with Void Elves for people who like it.

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Or, in 9.0 they could give Priests a 4th spec, and split Void and Shadow. Then they’d get to keep their Void stuff, and we’d get Shadow back.

Just give everyone 4th specs.

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But if it creates a mechanic that isn’t fun, should they still use it? Why not just call shadow form “void form” and get rid of the current void form?

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I’ll be honest, I never mained Shadow. I’ve always been into Discipline Priest, but there was a time in Wrath of the Lich King where I tried Shadow for a bit and loved it. It felt great to play and the old Vampiric Embrace that stayed active as a buff was awesome.

I made a Void Elf in Battle for Azeroth, a Priest named Nohpla, who I planned to be the exact opposite of my Blood Elf Priest Alphon. His transmog was the same as this Priest, just the opposite color. Instead of Gold/Light colors, he had Dark/Shadow colors, the blue version of this transmog as a Void Elf.

I even planned to make him a Shadow Priest, and I tried to play it but the rotation and the feel of Shadow just felt terrible. It felt really boring and restricting, different from how it felt way back then in Wrath of the Lich King. I ended up just having him stick to Discipline Priest, and he’ll probably stay Discipline which I don’t mind since I love Discipline Priest.

Insanity seems lame. They should just stick to Mana. Instead of flat out removing Voidform though, maybe they could make it a last tier talent. I don’t like the idea of giving Dark Archangel to Shadow Priest because it’s a PvP talent for Discipline. Instead, make Voidform a cooldown that would increase your damage by 20% and Haste by 10%. Put it on a 1.5 minute cooldown.

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That definitely works for me too. It just depends on how committed to keeping Voidform the devs are. If they aren’t willing to remove it in 9.0, then they should split it into a different 4th spec - just so long as we get Shadow back.

Dark Archangel was available to both Shadow & Discipline in Cataclysm - we just didn’t get it back as a PvP talent. I miss having my purple wings - but sure - if people want to make that spot Voidform to keep Voidform around I’d be happy with that too - so long as Shadow can go back to being a DoT spec that doesn’t just mash keys ><

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Bumpity bump bump.

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Jerrak, you don’t raid, but you don’t PvP much either. If you did PvP that much as a shadow priest, you’d realize that spriest isn’t as competitive as it was before Void Form was forced upon us. Most players who PvP only use Void Form if they are reasonably certain that they won’t be trained. The damage reduction from Edge of Insanity is helpful in surviving being trained, but that damage reduction is lost as soon as you slip into Void Form or drop below 60 Insanity.

Void Form was poorly executed and is ungainly at best. I enjoyed shadow all the way through Cata, and I can tell you with no amount of uncertainty that Void Form is NOT fun to play. I would much rather go back to the WotLK spriest that I played most than to continue playing this farcical Void Form version that we’re forced to play now. If anything, the devs could make Void Form a talent with it’s own ability bar so that players would at least have a choice, because a good many of us do not enjoy being tortured by this maladroit Void Form.

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I really don’t get why the priest class (one dps spec) gets a long ramp time, low survivability, only plays okay vs a raid boss and really stinks in all other forms of the game involving combat. We can’t even talent out of “super long ramp”.

I’d like any version of shadow prior to voidform better than voidform.

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Here comes a bumpy, ramblely story.

I enjoyed the game from the middle of vanilla until the end of WotLK, but then quit during the first week of Cataclysm because of the sudden changes made to the overall experience, particularly to the skill tree itself. I came back for Legion and the ONLY reason I decided to stick around was because taurens could be priests, and I really enjoyed Voidform’s aesthetic. However, the only viable PvM Shadow playstyle was Surrender to Madness, and it was not only very difficult to play properly, but required a lot of Haste. A LOT of Haste. (Also, I didn’t realize how painful the leveling experience was until I decided to play a Demon Hunter… LOL?)

I quit after a few months. When I came back a year or so later, I noticed that they reworked Shadow a bit. No longer did you need to run SoM to be effective. I felt like I had a lot more build variety, which is always a good thing in an RPG?! While the Voidform mechanic has always felt flawed, it was at least a lot easier to maintain than before I quit AND felt like it had an impact, so I could have some fun playing it (especially in random BGs… I felt immortal and it was hilarious).

Then BFA hit Shadow, and it hit the spec HARD. I couldn’t bring myself to level my spriest beyond 111. It felt terrible. While I was able to destroy all enemies I came across, the same could be said for any endgame toon with two legendaries at their disposal. Voidform felt clunky to get into, and a lot more difficult to maintain for a very minute bonus (being Void Eruption’s immense burst damage). So, I decided to focus on my Balance druid instead, which ended up being a very similar lolwut experience, but I’ll save that for another time (despite getting her to 120 and doing some early Mythic content).

… and then, OUTTA NOWHERE, Yvaelle brought their excellent idea to the Priest forums. Hoooooooly cow, man, was I ever excited. Hyped for weeks, even. Getting rid of the clunky, dumb Voidform mechanic (along with its awkward Void Bolt/Mind Blast dance) while simultaneously granting me even MORE build variety? Who this is Yvaelle, and why aren’t they an actual WoW designer? Answer: because their ideas make sense. Like Yvaelle said, it feels like no dev has ever actually used Voidform themselves; because, if they did, they would’ve realized how terrible it currently is.

So, c’mon, Blizzard. Please, just PLEASE at least consider Yvaelle’s ideas? The work has been done for you. It’s right here at the top of their thread, ripe for the picking. A lot of disgruntled spriests support it; shouldn’t this say enough about what you’ve done to Shadow and its community? The following changes will make us sane again:

  1. Slap yourself really, really hard. Like, really hard. Done that? Good, onwards to step 2.
  2. Implement all of what Yvaelle has proposed in order to make playing Shadow an actual pleasant experience again. Just do it! Right now!
  3. Keep Voidform around as a low-tier talent which WOULD ONLY replace Shadowform aesthetically, and enhance its passive damage reduction and damage bonus. It wouldn’t neuter Yvaelle’s idea, and would serve to placate those who enjoy the current Shadow “look and feel”.
  4. Revert Shadowform’s appearance back to how it looked during legion. PLEASE.

A last-ditch, DESPERATE compromise: Simply revert the Shadow changes back to the end of Legion when Voidform actually had some OOMPH to it. While I would prefer Yvaelle’s rework (duh), this would be fine, too. Thanks, I guess? Anyway, let’s keep this thread alive, even when it feels like Blizzard doesn’t care about its players.

Bumpity bump bump, bumpity bump bump. Also, the recent lore point Yvaelle made about Alleria and the Void… WTF, Blizz???

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You’re totally right. I tend to main a different class in each expansion. I’ve played shadow on and off since BC. I guess I’m just saying: I don’t think the mechanic is irredeemable.

And you’re right on all counts in pvp. It’s kind of crap right now. Who knows, maybe the 8.1 changes will put shadow on more solid ground.

At the end of the day, fun is a subjective measurement. Maybe I’ll hate Void Form eventually. Maybe I’m not invested enough in a single class. I hope Blizzard finds a solution that makes everyone happy!

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I sincerely wish that spriest would stop feeling like a non-rewarding spec to play in BFA.

It’s not even about the DPS anymore, but the class design and the lack of different play style.

I’d rather they give a new spec (4th spec) to spriest, either you are a classic dotter, or you are a void priest.

If you want insanity and void form, go for Voidform
If you like the Cata/MoP/WoD playstyle, go for Classic dotter

Yeah maybe it doesn’t fit entirely into the ‘lore’, but I just want a spec that I love to be enjoyable again. Now it simply feels like a chore. I don’t even mind if the DPS is in the middle of the pack, but just give me a freedom to have a playstyle I love rather than having to read up rotation guides to have perfect mastery over Voidform, not to mention it sucks for ppl playing with higher ms.

Listen to your players, not to your developers. Players are the ones paying the company, not the developers.

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(Solely from a PvE standpoint)

I guess I’m in the minority but I loved voidform. Late-legion Shadow is the single most fun class I’ve ever played.

Its weaknesses at high difficulties were clear though. Movement punished Shadow far harder than any other class, and there was simply not enough survivability for, say high M+. Warlocks had some tools that made me jealous for sure but comparing the two playstyles would be silly.

Within those limitations though, I’m sorry but I don’t see what people didn’t like about it. Being able to hit 200+ haste during an execute is just silly. Playing it was a rush.

The problems with Shadow now are that the stat squish, combined with the transition of a lot of “mandatory” Artifact/Lengendary traits into talents completely broke the spec.

I would prefer keeping Voidform and simply tuning the spec to be similar to Legion with a few QoL buffs. I 100% agree Shadow isn’t remotely fun to play now. It’s not particularly good at anything, bad at lots of things, extremely clunky to play and I see nothing on the horizon that changes this.

The problem I see with removing VF completely is that doesn’t seem particularly fun either, compared to what the spec was towards the end of last tier.

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