How to Fix the Rogue Plague in M+

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

Hey everyone. I think we’ve all seen the disgusting meta that is currently at play. I initially was just upset that ranged damaging classes were being sifted out of the mix. But this is absurd. Rogues are the only classes that get significant play in high keys or the MDI. Windwalker Monks get some chances occasionally, but that’s it. Every other class is getting ignored. Obviously this needs to be fixed because it just makes all of us skilled yet time-challenged players useless when not playing rogue. Obviously, I play Mage and am currently 1811 Raider IO score. I doubt I will be able to get much higher because of the meta. I also don’t have the time or money to level up a Rogue and learn the class. So how can this be fixed? Here is my proposal:

Rogues are incredibly hard to balance because of their immense utility with shroud and plenty of CC. So why should they also be the single best AoE class and one of the best ST classes in mythic + as well? I think (don’t kill me for saying this) that Blade Flurry should have its damage reduced by about 10-15%. It is the VAST majority of their damage and reducing it by so much will bring them below other DPS classes which is where they should be. They bring way too much to the table to also be top dogs in every other category. The reason I want their damage so nerfed is because nerfing their utility abilities (shroud in particular) would change the meta so drastically that dungeons would have to be releared.

Shroud probably should be nerfed, but it is something that should be done at the beginning of a tier or expansion. It was impossible to predict Rogues’ capabilities from Legion so the shroud nerf just wasn’t possible.

Let me know if you have another fix for this issue.

4 Likes
2

Well blizz is nerfing blade flurry. Next reset by, I believe, 15%. Also their azerite trait, keep your wits about you.
It’s a significant aoe nerf. For shroud, maybe have a Cooldown similar to bloodlust?

2 Likes
3

Just straight up disable shroud in a 5-man (dungeon) group

There are plenty of items/abilities/etc. that are too powerful in an organized pvp (rated BGs + arena) setting that are either disabled or severely diminished, so there is no reason the same treatment can’t be applied to shroud given the absurd state of M+ class representation

7 Likes
4

Blizzard has given up on class balance in BfA. Well technically “given up” is not correct cause they haven’t actually ever started fixing anything in the first place. The upcoming outlaw nerf is just an absolute emergency nerf because the triple outlaw teams have turned the MDI and m+ into a complete joke. We can only hope that they have learned from their mistakes and look forward to a better balanced 9.0

2 Likes
5

Actually? Wow that’s hilarious I guess my estimate wasn’t too far off then.

6

Are we still suggesting outlaw nerfs 72 hours after the internet exploded from the ones just announced? There are at least 5 threads on the subject.

I understand and empathize that your family was murdered by rogues, but nerfing a class into oblivion doesn’t help you. Your DPS spot in M+ is going to go to a DH, a Ret Paladin, an assassination rogue, or still outlaw rogues.

If dungeons continue to be designed in such a way as to have insanely huge amounts of trash, annoying caster trash, then classes with ways to skip trash and dish out interrupts are going to be the most important. How about advocating for cool utility for your class and others that will make you desireable in M+? There have to be neat, as of yet undesigned abilities that coud be given to other DPS classes to deal with annoying trash and casters.

And last, we aren’t the best at AoE and ST. That’s two different specs. Outlaw ST is and was mediocre hot RNG garbage.

And the proposed fix kinda solves the outlaw rogue plague in raids, too. You know, that area of the game where we weren’t overrepresented or crushing it at all. How about a fix to our M+ damage that doesn’t kill our raid viability? (Like a cap on blade flurry targets instead of a flat reduction in damage so we can still be viable on 2-4 target boss fights on raid, while cutting down our dungeon aoe?) Some of us are playing the class because we enjoy playing it. Not to make your M+ experience difficult.

1 Like
7

Well mr.rogue giving ‘near as of yet undesigned abilities’ or ‘cool utility for your class and others’ sounds like something that won’t happen until patch 9.0 (and won’t happen then either due to lies, delays and 100% ignorance of player feedback).

So since the absurd class/spec balance has already reached a boiling point here in season 3 / patch 8.2 should we all just keep sitting around waiting for nothing ? I don’t think having the majority of your remaining endgame PvE playerbase with brain cells (M+ players) quitting the game is a good thing for the future of retail WoW. I’m 120% sure that retail WoW can’t afford another WOD situation given that blizzard’s public reputation is already at a historic low and the majority of blizzard’s games are failing in terms of finances and player retention (hearthstone, overwatch, heroes is dead, diablo is dead, starcraft is dead).

Drastic times call for drastic measures and retail WoW class/spec balance is definitely a drastic time now. Is retail WoW going to go for full homogenization or not ? or are we supposed to be content with this abomination where a class like rogues have retained for over a decade the majority of their godmode toolkit while other classes/specs have been pruned/reduced into a laughable joke ?

2 Likes
8

I think 1 potential fix no one has even thouht of that would allow other class to bring a Similar Utility to the Rogues Mass Stealth and that is to give the other classes that have a Stealth ability to give a Mass stealth even if it was a Cross between the Limited individual stealth and the rogues Mass Stealth. that way Rogues wouldnt be the only class being able to do mass Stelath and all you Rogue Haters can get of our rogue behind.

9

dont you miss being able to keep blade fury active?

10

Diablo mainly took a dive cause of the whole Blizzcon 2018 fiasco IMO with the whole "dont you have Phones’ response one of them gave. Not to mention Diablo has this tendancy of having lots of players in its early days and after couple years the player base goes to other games.

11

Diablo took a dive because outside of minor patches and balance changes it has received no content for 4+ years, which would be fine if it continued to release expansions and new classes, but those were confirmed to be scrapped through various leaks

1 Like
12

This is actually a low key brilliant fix.

1 Like
13

Warlocks need an interrupt.

DKs need nothing. Maybe a damage boost. Maybe these changes will be enough. Blood could use some more passive DR.

Warriors need baseline stuns.

DH, Rogues, and WW monks need nothing. Good classes with good utility and spec options. Maybe sub could use some love.

Kitty Druids need a sap-like affect.

Balance Druids could use a shorter interrupt, talenting away from solar beam if need be.

Bear Druids just need more passive DR and some more damage.

VDH need some more uptime on spikes.

Ret could use some extra damage pulled out of its cooldowns and spread into the spec. Repentance could be made baseline.

Healy priests, paladins, and Resto shamans could use some “fire and forget” HOTS/totems/auras to deal with steady incoming damage (like grievous).

Enhance shamans need a damage boost, and all shamans need the CD removed from Hex in PvE situations.

SPriest silence should affect more things. VE may need a heal buff.

Disc Priest needs more ability to heal out of combat. The “do damage to heal” thing is cursed to always fail, just give it up as a trope.

Allow trading of consumables across server in M+, but return unused consumables to the owner at the end. Economies saved, and shroud diminished as a necessity in one go.

3 Likes
14

and than pray Guardian druids are never decent so its not 5 stealthers MDI? it terms of the MDI meta that would only elminate Prot Warriors the 3 Outlaw 1 Resto would still be unfettered.

15

Can someone translate this to English please?

16

He means that if guardian druid becomes #1 in M+ for some reason it can replace prot warrior in the standard comp to allow full independent team stealth capability

But if you’re banking on guardian druid becoming #1 in M+ with the BFA design philosophy for tanking (threat is a big deal, minimized self-sustain, minimized defensive cooldown duration, etc.) you’ll be waiting until next expansion at the earliest, and who knows what we get then

Currently guardian druid still gets destroyed by any sustained magic/bleed damage with only 2 cooldowns (with one super long cooldown) available and a (still) laughable amount of healing from frenzied regeneration with (still) stupidly long cooldown

Since that is over a year away for even the possibility of such changes don’t expect guardian to come for both prot specs in M+ any time soon

So disable shroud is the way to go, before we address all the other absurd advantages rogues also have

1 Like
17

There is just no way everyone will run 5 sneaky boys. They will just use invis pots, death skips.

1 Like
18

Alright so that’s still an improvement over the current situation with shroud

Invis pots are available to everyone and independent of class/spec choices, and so are death skips

19

I mean, its really not an improvement.

Also, just because its the MDI “Meta” doesn’t mean its what is used in high keys.

People following the meta in MDI don’t understand all of the reasons that its used. That and its honestly not necessary to complete keys that most people following it want to complete.

My solution, would be to take Invis pots off of the shared Battle Potion Cooldown.

This lets it fill the role of a shroud. If you already have a rogue then you can do both (basically what a second rogue would accomplish), and you’re not “punished” by not being able to use a battle potion.

IMO, the reason rogues are taken wasn’t even addressed. Yeah they did very good damage - but not top tier AOE damage - it was their survivability and utility kit.

MDI keys are entirely different than live keys. It is a race - pure and simple. So you pull as big as you possibly can and you want durable classes with lots of kicks / stuns (for interrupts) / gouges / blind, etc. Rogues bring this in spades. Combine it with cheat death and solid AOE interrupts and you have a winner.

So you take the most durable tank - grats That’s prot warriors right now. Hey they also bring really good aoe dps. And then your healer is practically decided for you based on the utility kit, how their healing works, and the fact that they have BREZ since no one else in the group does.

In high keys, you will usually see a comp of 2 melee + 1 dps. Glimmer paladins are very strong right now because of how they heal and dps at the same time. You’ll also see other classes more too. Spriests / HDHs / Ele / etc.

Lastly, the MDI meta is dictated not only by the keys / affixes, the classes, etc - but also the rules of the competition. You don’t see more variety because you can only change one character per run. So you take the best generalists and then have one player swap if necessary.

It causes you to end up with 2 rogues at a minimum if they start with three - with 1 very strong pick based on the current dungeon / affixes.

2 Likes
20

Just remove shroud. Rogues are supposed to be loners, not team players.

3 Likes