Today, M+ is a way better gearing method than raids because (1) the end-of-week ilevel is mythic quality, (2) there are valor upgrades, and (3) there is an abundance of loot, all of which you can upgrade.
The way that we can fix this and make raid gearing relevant again would be as follows:
Allow everyone to upgrade 1 piece of M+ OR raid gear to mythic quality once a week (assuming they have score / raid completion requirements).
Lower the initial ilevel on the weekly chest to final-boss-heroic ilevel, instead of mythic.
Increase the weekly chest for heroic raids to final-boss ilevel
Allow valor upgrades on raid loot; the amount you can upgrade is based on your raid progress.
I know this isn’t perfect (probably someone can think of something better), but I think this will help to make raid gearing relevant again.
As I said in another thread, stop devoting energy to trying to tear down M+ gearing, and instead focus it on ways to improve and modernize Raiding gearing.
I’m still committing 6-8 hours a week looking for successful groups and getting 3 random rolls out of literally almost 100 item loot table. Not much different than 2 dedicated raid nights with guild in time spent, but way harder to target my ideal items.
I’ve gotten stupid lucky on my dk in vaults but my gear isn’t the norm for vault luck. People still haven’t seen a weapon drop this far into season (even when targeting those dungeons and trying for drops).
Fully upgrading a 2h from 1/12 to 272 is 11k valor. That’s 5 * 11 = 55 successful dungeon runs to fully upgrade a weapon to 272 AFTER you see it drop if you don’t see it at a higher than base Ilvl. That’s just one slot. You can’t even hit 11k valor until the season is old enough to lift the valor cap either, btw. This also neglects every other slot.
You can do this content in addition to raiding, or vice versa, to max out your character. If you’re pushing progression you absolutely SHOULD be doing this. There is no reason not to be doing this, especially as a guild when you can raid 2 nights a week and break up into several 5 stacks and easily time 15s in aa group coordinated enough for mythic raiding.
If your guild isn’t progressing because you’re missing gear checks, I would have a stern talking to with anyone not running this content because it serves as a soft nerd over time to have a slow steady drip of gear into the system.
Nothing I suggested tears down M+ gearing. All it does it slightly lowers the ilevel of the weekly chest… while also allowing valor upgrades to Mythic quality. IMO this makes gearing better across the board.
Mythic+ is in a great spot right now for those who enjoy it and run keys as their primary content.
If raiding is not rewarding enough for its level of time commitment or complexity, then that structure should be addressed. Nerfing m+ will not make raiding more enjoyable.
Taking something away from someone else to make yourself feel better is a childish notion.
Read my post again. I’m not taking anything away. You can still get mythic quality gear from M+, you just have to valor upgrade it; but you can valor upgrade anything, not just the weekly chest item. So actually this is better, since you don’t need to run 10+ keys a week to get a choice of mythic quality items.
9.1 nerfed M+ loot by making Dom gear mandatory. It didn’t put an end to the crying.
Making M+ worse has never helped resolve the underlying issues. It just puts the M+ players on tilt. Raiders have been unhappy this entire expansion even through Blizzard’s wild experiments.
Did you actually read my post, or did you just look at the title and decide to rage? Nothing of what I’m suggesting makes M+ gearing worse, just different, and buffs raid gearing to a similar level.
Lowering the ilvl of gear we get certainly makes it worse… I firmly believe there are ways to make the raid loot issues better without stepping on M+ players.
No. Leave m+ alone the vault isn’t that bad. There’s just a little too much RNG. And they could stand to give us a little more than 200 valor per dungeon imo.
It is ridiculous to me how upset people are over key runners getting ONE mythic-level piece a week. Raiding isn’t the be-all end-all anymore, and that’s ok.
What gets me isn’t them being upset, I won’t judge them for that, but instead of saying “Here is how we could add/change Raids to make it feel more worth it.” it seems the first (and let’s be honest… usually only) solution is to nerf M+ like the issue isn’t really raids not being rewarding enough, it’s about m+ being rewarding at all.
