Without ultimate sac hpal would be awful.
People named Tassili in World of Warcraft have been jailed indefinitely and had their rights revoked.
I think instead of increasing or putting CC on a CD, make dispelling have no CD, except just share the GCD.
Super long post inc:
Just as an intro, the biggest things that need to be looked at is dps self sustain, tank items, and then adjustments to damage compared to health pools/healing compared to health pools
I actually think healers could stand to have higher healing overall if dps damage was generally much higher in general with dps self sustain obviously hit too (this also could go in turn with healer damage outputs too in PvP).
Basically what BfA is like right now is most dps generally donât have that fantastic of damage in comparison to health pools, self sustain from a lot of dps is really high (making the impact of CCing a healer really low), and then healing output is generally lower overall. Obviously people are going to say âBut omg Rdruid and Hpal healing is so OP !11!!â. This is pretty much going to be where most of the length of this post comes from, because itâs not actually brought up much.
Those healers are incredibly powerful, and have really strong burst heals available to them. But what really makes Hpal and Rdruid shine is their ability to top someone every 25 seconds (divine favor, or sotf->regrowths), which is pretty much out of any CC window. In general for example, Hpal actually struggles with output. With mana changes, druids can actually go oom if they have to heal the entire game and arenât getting drinks as a tradeoff for them actually having incredible healing. But when you pair them with very self sufficient dps, it allows these healers to be incredibly efficient in the downtime of their healing, and thus they can really lean on just going for big heals. Paladins donât fall behind outside of wings/other CDs as much as they normally would because when they are paired with say a mage, destro, or an assassination rogue, they can all do a great job at slowly mitigating damage and only slowly going down in HP. This gives enough time for the Paladin to get one big heal that tops them, and the enemy loses their kill opportunity that usually requires a vast amount of resources. Rdruid has the same thing going on, but obviously you can throw in any of the tanky melee classes in with them (Hpal actually is much less useful with those classes since it does require a degree of control to be as efficient as it can). Thatâs why you just watch Rdruids sitting feral aff all game long, they can mostly run around and get drinks as much as possible, their dps are just doing everything they want etc. The druid isnât having to constantly worry about globals for damage⊠the game is really slow paced with damage vs health pools and the dps partners they play with are super durable so it can give you the opportunity to take things really slow as a rdruid and therefore just only get out the most efficient healing output as possible.
Thereâs also the issue ofc that in general healers contribute to a kill less by just keeping their team offensive or following up with crowd control and moreso just by having extra damage available. Hpals for example historically are good healers for aggressive teams because they can shove powerful CDs that let their team mates stay in for a fast aggressive game. Right now the CDs are obviously still the same way and can be used as such but mostly Hpals can actually just have really long slow paced games and just will instead contribute more towards damage with strong judgements. Rdruids instead of mostly supporting with well timed clones are often most useful by being feral affinity, providing extra damage for their team and actually setting up with stuns. They went from needing to be the follow up and requiring coordination as a team in order to go in for plays, to basically just being able to run in whenever they want as a cat and just dps/go for restealths etc.
Discs who usually also tried to be really momentum based and offensive, contributing with offensive dispels, MD, Fears, and MCs as well as being able to prevent damage to keep their team aggressive, moreso as a mixture of a Hpal and Rdruid (keeping team on the aggressive, but also following up with their set ups) instead have a much weirder place. You still actually have most of your toolkit and on paper theyâre not actually horrible design wise but the tuning for them is really bad. You basically never can really afford the mana to actually say try to be offensive with purges and other utilities, and you instead their biggest strength is just playing with a Rogue and a Mage and relying on Schisms synergy with dps items and essences (thankfully being fixed), but their actual healing output in general is quite awful. They can really only utilize that offensive strength with schism when playing with a mage or a rogue and itâs partly because of their CC but also a lot of it is just how durable those specs are too. Discs are so far into one extreme so even though on paper they can definitely function close to how they always would historically, they just donât get there. You at least used to have the option of staying ahead healing wise as a disc by managing atonemen/efficient heals while your team is aggressive and topping your team was very inneficient but possible (so it was important to maintain that momentum). But now disc is in this spot that they donât really stay ahead all that often, and even though they have those mana inefficient spells itâs so under-tuned that it doesnât actually start to help you catch up. They also generally were weak to being CCâd a lot - but generally were pretty ok at dealing with being trained (you had the opportunity to play on a timer in those situations and win basically). The weakness to CC still exists but they get killed easier than any other healer and donât really have that much they can do about it lol, you just get attacked and never recover really.
Rsham similar to Rdruid and Disc - theyâre normally brought for tools that help keep their team offensive like purges, shearing, grounding, tremor that are all fairly disruptive. Then thereâs also the benefit that they always had pretty solid healing output too and could be really efficient in that regard, with their major weakness being how easy they were to tunnel and train down. Right now shamans are entirely reversed in that regard. They have god awful healing output, but theyâre nearly impossible to kill (every ghost wolf talent and trait together basically). It puts them in a weird spot, where now theyâre kind of best just playing cleaves with dps that donât take any damage or have incredible self sustain so that they donât have to actually heal - in which case the enemy team has to pretty much decide if they want to hit the immortal dps, or chase the shaman running around the pillar in ghost wolf. It just makes the matches feel bad, and then shamans also really lose out on playing comps in the way that normally made them shine, doing well with say warlocks, shadowpriests, warriors and a bunch of mixtures of these classes together to keep offensive momentum.
MW is kind of funny, itâs honestly the only healer that at least somewhat resembles itâs general playstyle. The way Iâve always looked at them is just a hybrid of rdruid and shaman, being a great healer for dampening because of their high HPS and mobility. Theyâve always shined well with shamans, dks, or warriors and pmuch still have that synergy (exception that enh shamans are trash). Only thing is really is theyâve lost a bit of offensive tools. I actually always felt like crane was a really silly mechanic that was super hard to balance (same with melee wings) so Iâm kind of ok with that being trash, itâs just they also just have super long CDs on their other utility (incap super long for ex, personally feel like itâs fine for it to be on a shorter CD for MW even though it would be annoying). The one thing thatâs pretty cheesy with them is just the WW monk synergy, since legsweep and incap are on longer CDs it actually works out to have two monks so that you can actually get more frequent goes lmao. Also thereâs the RoP elevator stuff which is honestly pretty troll. In general though I feel like I actually like their place, itâs just their actual kit is lacking and I donât think crane is the solution to readjusting that again.
With all of that being said, we can just see how thereâs so many factors with tuning that are so severely wrong that are ruining the pace of the game. The role of healers is extremely odd right now - they donât really function in a logical way that alligns with the general strengths/weaknesses of their class design. DPS also are struggling in this regard, theyâre too tanky but also damage to health pool ratios are bad combined with the self sustain. Tank items just add in the extra contribution here, we just have too much forgiveness in general.
I heavily disagree with any change based around putting CDs on those CCs too, the only reason those feel as obnoxious is because the classes with spammable CC just arenât as squishy as normal which was always the tradeoff. You just need to hit their defense and then it stops mattering as much. Gpyro also loses usefulness when mages stop being so tanky - although I still think flamecannon shouldnât effect it.
TL;DR Tuning is the only major issue, the CC changes suggested in OP are silly, and the paladin ones are unnecessary too. Tuning would fix a majority of the things youâre trying to complain about in your OP to begin with, and itâs much simpler to do in an expac than a mechanical rework which would have an impact in future xpacs anyways.
6 Likes
I agree with what you typed, and i kinda did not really think about the cc thing as you said casters being more tanky than plate is the main cause of frustration when dealing with being spam cced non stop. like in wrath if a mage wanted to stand in middle of map and cast gpyro while a marks hunter and warrior or ret or feral beat on him lol that woulda never worked no matter how much healing he got.
Nice post.
Yea they should lol. Just because you wanna que guardian on live for free rating cause ya canât cut it as boomkin doesnât mean itâs ok lolâŠ
3 Likes
Iâd have been happy with them reverting sudden death execute charge to work again.
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Cool cause he didnt mention any lock nerfs⊠
I think PVP right now is in so much better state than last season and last expansion. I have no complaints.
Make tanks, dh, mage, rog, dk, lock, and to a lesser extent warriors killable. Buff underperforming specs like mm, enh, aff and then see what needs to be done imo.
Many of the games issues stem from these specs just not punished for being offensive the whole game. Buffs to mm, enh, and aff also will create unique counters to current offending specs after nerfs to reshape the landscape without changing long time existing game mechanics.
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Greater Pyro should have been removed in Legion itâs completely toxic to the game. Here you have this spec whose sole purpose in Arena is to try and cast a broken ability that forces the entire match to play around it because if you ignore it you die. The game itself is totally messed up nowâŠ
Lets rewind to Wrath⊠you know the expansion where DPS self healing was not existent and matches ended fast and were quick/brutal. 1v1s ended fast, 2v2s ended fast. Now we have a game where every single DPS has random absorbs that are constantly up, random passive healing constantly up, random one shot heals, constant immunities to damage(DH blur/darkness???). The game now is just boring and thatâs a fact PVP is super super boring. Not only is the progression and gearing system no longer existent but the game itself is bad and they refuse to fix it.
Also some weird idealogy that Blizzard picked up in MoP or WoD is when ever something is broken they donât ever attempt to fix it until the next big patch or very often the case the next Expansion so because Blizzard now seems to have no head they are constantly breaking things and they then refuse to implement any change or fixes for months and or multiple years.
Lastly tanks should not exist in Arena⊠they should be reduced to flag carries and defenders in BGs. Giving them damage while retaining tankiness creates a god that should not exist. Let alone Guardian druid which is beyond a god⊠impossible to kill, has damage, gives damage to his team,reduces the damage everyone takes??? Who actually thought of any of the PVP talents for Guardian or any tank spec?
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What? You have no Complaints??? PVP in Legion and BFA have been absolutely atrocious. Your complaint should be PVP itself is bad and seriously needs to return to what it used to be. Itâs so painfully slow and full of random procs and defensives.
I agree tuning fixes a lot of things⊠the problem is Blizzard refuses to tune things. Now I donât play even close to as much as you but does it not seem like Blizzard has kind of just given up on tuning anything in WoW? It seems like you have to way 5 months for small hotfixes where as in the past theyâd throw out fixes to stuff on random weeks. Not saying they were perfect in the past because they werenât but they were so much more active in actively pushing small changes to make each patch better and itâs just gone⊠once a patch goes live now they go into hibernation for months without even so much as a whisper to the community.
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If they would just tune it so that the strongest offensive specs/classes didnt also have the highest defensives, that would open up some viability of other classes that can also perform similarly but lack the raw defensiveness of the meta classes
Ya I mean it def feels like they gave up
Usually itâs funny, when the game needs massive mechanical changes it always is understandable that it requires a new xpac but I havenât even felt thatâs been an issue with BfA⊠on paper I actually thought 8.1 would be amazing because they gave so many specs their tools back for example
But then they just let the game be incredibly slow and badly tuned and itâs just stayed that way which feels so weird. Like just any attention to adjustments would help but itâs been pmuch ignored across the board not just PvP, honestly wish I knew why
Itâs just funny when classic has had more changes than bfa rofl
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Maybe Iâm reading it wrong but would this mean 80% reduced self/off heal for hybrids? Not sure about this.
The only complaint that i have is that i want vendors. Everything else is fine to me.