Introduce 3 new abilities, either as talents or baseline:
Seal of Righteousness (Baseline) - Increases damage done by 8%
Seal of Light (Baseline) - Melee attacks have a high chance to restore health
Seal of Justice (Talent - Retribution): Melee attacks limit enemy movement speed to 100%.
Each Seal lasts 60 minutes, or until another Seal is activated. Simple, flavorful, elegant.
There should be a significant damage loss from Righteousness to Light/Justice because they offer defensive power and utility in exchange for that damage loss, and vise-versa. There are multiple tuning knobs here (8% damage, amount healed, proc chance, etc.)
You can expand on these with talents. Here are some examples:
Gain Seal of Light at 50% effectiveness even while another Seal is active.
PVP Talent: Seal of Justice is always active
Seal of Insight - Seal of Light also restores X mana
Choice node:
Seal of the Crusader - Increases damage done by 10%. Crusader Strike increases the Holy damage taken by the target by 3% for 15 seconds. This effect stacks up to 5 times.
Seal of Wrath - Increases damage done by 10%. Judgment and Hammer of Wrath have +50% crit chance on enemies below 20% health or above 80% health
Empowered Seals - Judgment empowers you based on your active Seal. Each effect lasts 30 sec and persists through swapping Seals.
I have a sad feeling that if we see seals theyāll be like the virtuous commands conduit, where theyāre a passive effect, unfortunately, or a spell name for a talent, but with no gameplay interaction.
Maybe not those specific benefits, but Iāve always been up for seals being buffs that empower our abilities and judgement, more akin to how WotLK Seal of Command worked making our single target abilities cleave etc.
Things that you would switch out depending on situation.
Well, thatās your opinion, and I respectfully disagree. It needs a facelift, but it should return. Our class is rock dumb right now.
We can do both. First and foremost: focusing purely on M+ and competitive play styles has ripped creativity from the Paladin class, more than any other class currently in the game. Paladins are reaching a Terminal Boring Horizon. We need a redesign: talents and base skills.
Agaib I agree with others that ret csn be good with the chsnges we have suggested to our cds, mobility ans talents.
I am not asking for seals, but if they were to come we cannot be swapping themmevery 3rd global in order to deal damage. They have to be one for damage one for cleave one for healing and one for slow/cc.
A redesign of Talents and base skills involves MORE than passives.
I agree with this as well, but the use of seals goes BEYOND just Retribution Paladins. They arenāt the only Paladins.
As Holy or Protection, the entirety of my gameplay involves all of three or four abilities. Two entire bars are dedicated to reigning in a DPS player who think a dungeon = an Everyoneās Got Talent audition. Holy and Protection are straight up bland because Ret is over represented (no offense meant to anyone here). I play all three, so I want to see fun playstyles in all three.
I donāt think Seals should come back in the way they existed before; Iāve created a thread on the Paladin board suggesting a redesign of our fundamental spells and attacks that would be functional for modern play and still retain our class fantasy. There are some passives that canāt be avoided, but they should boost the attacks we all have. Iāve stated as much in my thread.
I just donāt know how you can have such an opinion when you have no content done, you donāt even have WoD stuff completed and you are posting on a Monk, do you even have a 60 Paladin? How would you know what is wrong with the class when it looks like you donāt even play it, or the game in general?
I mean other classes donāt have these problems, it has nothing to do with focusing on M+ and competitive play, Iām always curious as to what other playstyle there is, AFKing in Stormwind?
Sorry people like Ret more, and as of late that probably isnāt even a true statement, itās hard to be a Ret Paladin right now and very easy to be Holy or Prot.
Appealing to class fantasy doesnāt make your class good, it could play like a dumpster fire and fill all your fantasies, how would that be good for the game.
I like the general idea you brought up, but id like the seals that that are empwered by judgement to be mroe interesting than stat increaes depending on the seal.
like a seal that empowers crusader strke to hit 5 time after casting judgement with a quick fast stab animation.
Or one that makes divine storm last 5 seconds and do aoe around you while pulling mobs slowly towards you after judgement.
Or having a seal make judgement whril around the target hitting the main target 3 times during 10 seconds appplying the judgement debuff along with its damage.
I dont know something more than just bland, non gameplay changing empowerments.
Ok, soā¦hereās my main since '05. Did it not occur to you that people have alts, and that those alts can speak anywhere in the forums? Did it also not occur to you that oneās trust level in the WoW forums is tied only to ONE character, and not your entire account?
I ask, because you can surf a profile with ease, yet you donāt seem to know either of those things, even though youāve obviously been here for a while. Thereās no way someone like yourself would have such an inflated sense of self importance in such a trivial matter as a character. Letās chalk this up to you ānot saying that properlyā, and not one of the weirdest flexes ever.
As for my ānot being here for WoDāā¦what reasons could an adult human being, living on planet Earth, possibly have to not have played a game expansion? Letās name a few things that could happen to anyone, for funsies.
College being the most important thing in oneās life
Securing actual cash for living purposes, since real life neither an MMO nor utopia
Deep dislike for the concept of a WoW expansion, even though you like the rest
Playing other games with friends whoād left WoW and loving them
Mourning three of the coolest dudes youād ever know, ever.
Trying to start a family
Getting really into extracurricular school and gym activities
One or more of these MAY have happened to me, in or around the launch of WoD. In no particular order, and certainly not in an orderly fashion. WoW in general, and its competitive play in particular, may be the pinnacle of life for some people. It isnāt for everyone. Also, though life is stable now, very little of WoD is appealing. What I have gained in WoD, is literally what I gathered when I returned just before Legion. Itās not important. Sorry, Your Highness.
Ok, back in the weird flex territory. I donāt know how you THINK you sound, but neither āauthoritativeā, āamusingā, āgenuineā, nor āknowledgeableā come to mind. Basically, if I want to play Gauntlet, Iāll play Gauntlet. Not M+.
And as for why it ālooks like I donāt even play it, or the game in generalā: way back when raiding became a social identity in this game, I hated what I was turning into to while playing it. So, I stopped trying to be on āthe edgeā, and played for fun. I very much want to tank raids, and I have tried M+ with the few friends that remain. They sound like you now. I donāt want to be that, ever.
Hope that clears up some of your questions. Iāll be jumping back onto my spider now.
Dude, I realize Seals are passives. What I said was that we need a redesign of talents and base skills. That means, active AND passive abilities.
Like, all of it. Everything Paladins can do. Iām not arguing or disagreeing with you at all here, I just donāt know how to make it clearer that I called for a redesign of everything we have.
Sorry sir, the best I can do is keep the Wings, the Divine Shields, the heals, blades, hammers, verdicts, Exorcism and Lay on Hands.
The blessings, auras, seals, Divine Charger and all that? Yeah, that stuff has to go back to the shop for some tuning up. Holy Powerās busted too, might have to ditch it entirely. The whole thingās going to cost you a few Demon Hunters, maybe some Warlocks
Iām sorry you took offense to me pointing out the fact you havenāt really done much content. I can look through your achievements which I believe are not specific to character and universal over the forums, could be wrong.
Now why does this matter, well you are in here saying, āthis is whatās wrong with Ret, or this needs to come back,ā but how would you know when you have the bare minimum of experience playing the spec? Itās fine if you had RL stuff happening and couldnāt play, but Iām just not sure how during this time of not playing, could you have formed an opinion on Empowered Seals when you didnāt use it?
Actually, you took offense to the fact that I stated that your opinion, quote, ā[w]e donāt need to be worrying about adding sealsā¦ā, was just that: your opinion. I disagreed. That was the entirety of our interaction. I took offense to your arrogant attempt at posturing in your follow-up. I clearly spelt out why I found it ridiculous.
If I must break it down: your achievements are absolutely meaningless outside of getting into your next dungeon run. The strength of your ānoā here carries as equal weight as any other personās post. Take as much time as you need coming to terms with it.
Actually, at zero point did I say anything about Retās gameplay. When I was speaking with Christtel, whom I have a lot of respect for, I agreed with what she said about Ret, and then I said āthe use of seals goes BEYOND just Retribution Paladins. They arenāt the only Paladinsā.
That is because seals DO go beyond just Ret Paladins using themā¦because they ARENāT the only Paladins. What part of that, exactly, says āthis is whatās wrong with Retā? Not a single word. So, you have to accept that either your e-peen went to your head in the moment, or you had a lapse in reading comprehension.
Listen, you may be a nice enough person, and Iām actually down with speaking with you, OP, and anyone else about making changes to Paladins. However, I care NOTHING about your achievements or accomplishments in this game, beyond saying ācongratulationsā.
Finally, I did mean what Iād said: I very much want to do more in modern WoW. Shadowland dungeons and raids look cool as hell. I just hate doing it with people who carry themselves as you have earlier in this thread. Nothing about that says Iād have a fun time with them.
Sure looks like you are commenting on gameplay right there, nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. Maybe you made the mistake and thought you were just commenting on overall Paladin gameplay, but Seal Twisting is mostly a Ret thing, especially with Empowered Seals, since they were the only spec that had it.
Iām not trying to insult you, Iām trying to understand how you are formulating an opinion on something when you donāt have very much experience. If you werenāt around when Seal Twisting was big how could you comment on it. Empowered Seals is the best version, kills me to say that, but it was and it still sucked, but you didnāt get to experience much of that, but above you are saying āSeal Twisting should return.ā
Achievements and such are just my view into when you played the game and what you did, like did you do raids in WoD, PVP, dungeons? Were you around in Wrath? I can look through the achievements and see those things, thatās all Iām saying. If you didnāt do dungeons, raids, or PVP, you were mostly doing open world stuff where combat lasts 10-15 seconds, so you arenāt even doing much Seal Twisting to begin with.
Itās like Iāve been at my job 10+ years and Iām shooting for improvements, but in you come on your first day to say this or that needs to be changed and we need to be doing things this way.
