I guess we’ll see who cares, won’t we?
Or how much it matters.
Good luck.
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oooh… I’m scared now! 
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Now see wiping your butt should be a solo activity. However with all these change requests from the carebear section because they can’t wipe their own. I could be wrong.
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Either way you spin it, retail has premades vs premade. Vanilla never had such a thing. Had premades dodging premades though. Lol.
Join a premade, play retail, bg in the lower level brackets, or continue getting roflstomped by premades.
Don’t worry. It’s almost over. By phase 6 premades will die down a lot.
Just let the neckbeards get theirs first. Then you’ll be geared and stomping fresh 60’s in solo “competitive” games.
Fact. Using multiple alts to spam the same thing is still just spam.
Fact. Using multiple avatars to “show support” for your position may not be lying but it sure is an underhanded move and shows how weak that position really is.
Fact. Premades were very much a thing in Vanilla.
Fact. Premade vs. premade (RBGS) were not a part of Vanilla.
Fact. Retail has what you’re asking for.
Fact. This topic is spam and should be dealt with as such
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False.
People complained about premades after the introduction of cross realm battlegrounds and they implemented a change which made it more likely for premades to face each other, rather than facing pugs.
Suffice to say it didn’t work very well, but it is a thing that happened.
Retail has Rated Battlegrounds; but you can still queue for a “casual battleground” with a premade and stomp pugs.
Rated battlegrounds suck because if you lose a player you have to play man-down, and queueing for them is inherently frustrating while leaders wait for “a veng dh” to carry the flag, because every other class is worse at that.
Building rated groups feels unnecessarily frustrating and time consuming, dealing with the social stigma when your group loses is annoying, and none of it feels like it’s healthy for the battleground system.
Suffice to say, this is still a problem in retail, and has been for 15 years.
And what you’ll notice if you read my OP, RBGS are NOT what i’m asking for.
I’m asking for more fairness in the matchmaking procedures, which is unacceptable to you because it means less one-sided games for premade teams, and you feel like you should be better rewarded for playing a fair game than another player who also played a fair game.
See where i’m at with this?
What you’re afraid of is fairness. You’re afraid of a fair game.
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You can use whatever words you want to.
All that’s coming out of your mouth is, “I deserve more honor because I’m a better player.”
And I’m saying, “Prove it.”
Because if players are being rewarded for forcing unfairness by manipulating match variables like the ability to communicate with voice and being able to select your own team’s player composition, you haven’t proved that you’re a better player; just that you have more friends.
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You’ll excuse me if I don’t believe that constitutes greater reward.
There is nothing Vanilla about our current honor system that was only in actual Vanilla for a little over three months. A true Vanilla like honor system would be server only queues, but the premade hph peeps like to forget that.
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^ They don’t want to admit this. Get rid of Cross Realm Battlegrounds, and the hph basement nerds will be playing the #nochanges they love so much.
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And never got their premade vs premades in Vanilla.
Which players dodged around and basically win traded to avoid long games. Same thing they’re doing now if they happen upon another premade.
That’s the way the community wants it. If they did change it these forums would be lit up worse than what the 2 people and their army of alts are doing.
Come Classic Cata you will get your premade vs premade. They’re called RBGs.
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Explain to me how this isn’t degenerative behavior, and why it shouldn’t be addressed.
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So… people still think this game is in active development?
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People still pay subs.
shrug
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Sub that funds Retail.
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Subs fund both games.
No one is claiming Premade vs Pug is fair, but it is how it was back then, and this is a recreation of a 15 year old game. Had they separated pugs vs pugs and premade vs premade from the start, it would have been different.
Changing things now would diminish the accomplishment of people that took their time to get good, get in a competitive premade group and grind their way to their ranks.
Not to mention, allowing pug vs pug queues would make alliance 3 2 1 QUEUE exploit again. So, in short, people got to rank 14 months ago which shows it can be done with the system at hand… just do what they did or go back to retail if you want welfare gear.
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Right, because being able to beat half a team 10x an hour with every possible advantage is a far greater accomplishment than being able to win a fair and more engaging match once every 30 minutes.
I addressed this in my OP. Suffice to say that it would not, so long as there were a minimum queue period sufficient enough to scramble the queue order such as to make 123 queue premades an impossibility.
You seem to purposely misunderstand my intent.
I want fairer matchmaking that consistently produces higher quality gameplay in battlegrounds.
Feel free to explain how this implies I seek access to welfare gear, or how my desire to better preserve Vanilla’s gameplay in WoW Classic suggests that I somehow don’t belong.
The people who actually want welfare epics are the same people advocating for unrestricted matchmaking procedures which consistently pit premades against pugs.
They want to be able to get a full match worth of bonus honor and reputation for beating half an enemy team, whilst being carried by teammates they hand selected instead of playing an inherently fairer game where neither team had an inherent advantage prior to the gate opening, and where their own personal contribution to the match counts for more as a means to determine the outcome.
“just join a premade, and you can stomp pugs too!”
Yeah? No thanks, actually. That would only serve to fill me with a sense of unavoidable guilt, for the knowledge that my success had the effect of frustrating the players on the other team, due to the sense in which it forced an unfair situation upon them for my benefit.
I would prefer a fair match, regardless of who I choose to queue with. When the enemy team doesn’t put up enough of a fight to challenge me, I don’t have as much fun playing the game; because I feel empathetic toward them.
Premades facing pugs results in degenerative gameplay which is dis-interesting to all parties involved. It isn’t an appropriate challenge for the players who queued as a group, and it isn’t fair to the players who didn’t; regardless of their prospective quality as an individual player.
In the case of premades and pugs, the odds are inherently stacked, either for or against you, depending upon which side you stand.
The changes I have proposed to the queue system adequately address this degeneration and seek to repair it in an effort to better preserve Vanilla’s gameplay conventions; despite the efforts of a small but highly visible faction within the playerbase who place their own desire for reward above the health and integrity of the game and its systems.
Read my OP. I’m not suggesting they separate the queues. It’s still 1 queue, it’s just matchmaking fairer teams, which results in more engaging gameplay.
#nochanges is simply a mask you’re hiding behind to defend the ability to acquire “welfare gear,” as you call it, by utilizing premade groups to more easily farm honor.
Players in premades are playing an inherently easier game.
WoW Classic is not Vanilla for a wide variety of reasons. The largest is actually the fault of the playerbase; in that they simply know far more about the game in 2020 than they did in 2005.
Ranking has been reduced to a scientific formula, resulting in degenerative behavior that hurts the overall quality of gameplay in PvP Battlegrounds.
It’s in the spirit of preservation to suggest implementing some semblance of guard rail to prevent player mentality from damaging the integrity of the Vanilla-like gameplay that we’re trying our best to preserve.
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Loved your entire post, but this is what I really liked. The current meta is absolute trash, and so is the way we insist this game be played.
Many good people I’ve met in Classic already left because of all this meta crap that’s taken over. Few more are on their way out, and so am I. People aren’t playing WoW for fun. They’re just borg drones who insist everyone else join the collective. How DARE you have a different opinion outside of the ‘way to play’, and if you do, go back to retail, and get good. Pack mentality wigs me out. Feels more like a cult.
Leave it up to elitism to act like communism that just erodes the entire organism.
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15 years too late in my opinion. We no changes.
Fair is mute, the system remains the same. Wait for TBC or change retail for the better.
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