Are you sure? I’m pretty sure I remember an option for SC2 that didn’t.
Regardless, the barracks analogy is still bad. No one’s starting the game with a flag capped or a base taken.
And yet… SC and WC3 aren’t games which feel like there’s an inherent need for separate queues for premades and pugs.
Certainly not to the same extent that it seems mandatory that there be some semblance of separation as there is in WoW Classic – because those games are entirely built upon fair premises.
You can’t join a bnet game at a disadvantage, other than the database entries which dictate how much damage the units do or how long buildings take to construct.
The entirety of the contest that takes place between players in each instance of those games is entirely skill centric – and as such, the only variance between an arranged team and a pickup group is the skill of the players involved.
WoW has a lot of other extraneous factors which dictate just how successful a group can be when we consider the capabilities of the various classes.
While that may be true, you are starting with something that the other team absolutely doesn’t have, which is the guarantee of what we might collectively call a viable class composition – which is something that the pug, in this case, is absolutely not entitled to as a result of how matchmaking works.
No one’s arguing premades don’t have an advantage. They’d be foolish too.
The comparison to starcraft isn’t apt, because you’re taking an in-battle advantage (free barracks) and classifying it the same as a team composition advantage (for example, picking 2 sc races that synergize nicely).
I would argue that all of the sc2 races have synergy depending on how you play them.
The same could not be said about all potential group compositions by class – especially in reference to what we might call a cookie cutter premade which features multiple healers, several melee, and several ranged.
You stand to be far further impoverished if your team lacks even a single healer than if your team mate was protoss instead of zerg.
Be a better leader. You can win with pugs vs premade.
and yet, you’re not arguing for the pug queue to ensure an equal amount of healers, or any sort of predetermined team composition, are you?
You’re saying no premades. Won’t this sort of unfairness persist in Pug v Pug?
Starting to think this was never really about fairness.
The fact that your team composition is unlikely to be perfect is one of the more compelling aspects of pug participation, as I’ve said before.
Sometimes being forced to construct creative solutions to problems that a druid or a mage, for instance, could’ve more easily solved, is what makes each match feel unique – becuase you’re encountering some semblance of variance or unusual event that was never-the-less successful.
It increases the variance in the types of challenges your team is likely to face based on the unique set of tools they have available to them.
So you’re ok with unfairness, so long as it’s random?
Surprise. You randomly got matched with a premade.
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Right, which wasn’t fair, because my team was constructed upon the basis of randomization and yours wasn’t.
The premises of that match aren’t competitive.
The randomization of both teams is a constant, which produces fairness. Each individual player on both sides had an equal chance to be empowered or diminished by that constant when they hit the queue.
They both had to react to circumstance after the fact.
They’re 2 completely different brackets that each have their own rating system. In SC2, at least when I played it, your solo ranking had no impact on your 2’s ranking. Rated pvp in BFA work the same. There’s seperate ratings for RBG’s, 2’s and 3’s. Classic wow is all one “ladder”. You can’t seperate pugs out unless you also seperate them from the honor system. You literally made my argument for me.
It’s more that in a pug vs pug the same unfairness is applied to both teams. Where as in premade vs pug the premade is basically just given a free win.
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That’s your own fault. You have the option to construct your own team, and choose not to. Why should you be entitled to the same rewards as those who put in the extra effort to ensure they have a good team?
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How wasn’t it fair?
You chose not to premade, you chose not to build a team. You had the option. For whatever reason, you didn’t use it.
That’s like arguing that there should be a seperate queue for people who spend their talents better, because since you chose not to, it’s unfair.
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Then remove my option to do that Donkles.
That solves my problem. Does it solve yours?
Nah, leaving the game as is solves my problem just fine, though.
Because you want easy wins.
Exactly.
All you want is gear. Don’t care who it negatively affects. Don’t care that the gameplay sucks, you just gotta get that weapon.
again, I have 0 hks. Tell me all about these easy wins I want.
Keep putting up that strawman, it’s real impressive how you knock it down.
… Okay. Then why does your opinion matter.
Why does yours?
Because I engage with this system daily.