I'm not very familiar with the itemization, but I have a feeling that Dire Maul being available prior to the first clears of Molten Core/UBRS will have a significant impact on gearing, particularly changing the landscape of pre-raid BiS items, and maybe even in some cases, getting better gear out of a 5 man than a raid.
How much will this change people from wanting to run things like (U/L)BRS, Scholo and Strat many times for gear, since DM is available and likely has better rewards? Is this a big deal to you?
Another concern is 1.12 itemization, since they said they didn't want to touch the 1.12 data, it seems to imply that we should expect that any items that changed from launch to 1.12 will be at their most recent state, which in many cases will be their most powerful. I don't have much of an understanding of what sort of impact this will have.
We already know 1.12 talents will make things a lot easier. I'm just worried that all of these things together coupled with our knowledge of the game will make the experience far easier than we remember.
I don't think it's a big deal. Most of the people playing Classic are unlikely to care about min-maxing to such an extent that they would abandon running other max level dungeons to specifically farm nothing but Dire Maul.
I'm pretty sure it will be easier, and if they don't tune the bosses for extra debuffs it will be a cakewalk. I wonder if they intend it to be easier?
11/03/2018 10:04 PMPosted by VouHow much will this change people from wanting to run things like (U/L)BRS, Scholo and Strat many times for gear, since DM is available and likely has better rewards? Is this a big deal to you?
You need to do black rock spire for blackwings lair.
It's UGE for healers gear wise and it's going to pump a bunch of money into the economy. I'm going to be rich much sooner than anticipated which is good. It won't stop people from doing other 5 mans though. There are still BiS pieces in all of the dungeons for most specs. Gear upgrades shouldn't be a big deal other than PVP rank 7 rewards but apparently battlegrounds aren't coming out till BWL anyways.
Dire maul has some seriously strong items but frankly without it the game doesn't feel completed. There is so little 5 man content without the dire maul set that it's kind of hard to believe it was ever omitted.
However how much it matters will also matter on whether they make changes to end game. Now that we know they are actually using 2005 data directly that may be the best or worst thing we found out this weekend.
It could be bad because it might lead the development to not understand how much easier things were at the end of the expansion and allow them to be lazy and not take any action to remedy this.
If they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
I do hope they at least consider a rebalance of pve, but I have a feeling that if they dont this will just end up like every other classic project where people are demanding fresh servers 6 months into progression.
However how much it matters will also matter on whether they make changes to end game. Now that we know they are actually using 2005 data directly that may be the best or worst thing we found out this weekend.
It could be bad because it might lead the development to not understand how much easier things were at the end of the expansion and allow them to be lazy and not take any action to remedy this.
If they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
I do hope they at least consider a rebalance of pve, but I have a feeling that if they dont this will just end up like every other classic project where people are demanding fresh servers 6 months into progression.
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While the DM gear is a critical issue which threatens to trivialize multiple aspects of the game, many people focus only on raids. The stacking advantages of 1.12 talents, buffed itemization, etc. make almost all other content easier as well. This is why only tuning raids for added difficulty isn’t a completely satisfactory answer to me.
Not to mention the ludicrous amounts of gold to be farmed in DM...
Not to mention the ludicrous amounts of gold to be farmed in DM...
It's getting blown out of proportion by influencers.
Theres a heap of reasons to still do the other dungeon content.
-Enchanting matts that can only be found consistantly in live strat, also the "lesser" dungeons have a heap of bosses that drop other enchanting matts.
-Recipes. Again, theres a heap of them outside DM that drop good/essential recipes for raiding.
-Tip's own argument of the cannoneer neck piece debunks this as the neck drops in live strat, not Dire maul.
-Gearing up is easier on your entire group/guild if they're not shoe-horned into the same 3 instances ad naeseum.
-No attunements require you to go to diremaul.
-No dungeon set pieces exist in diremaul, and while some pieces are terrible some are pretty ok.
-Certain rare dungeon drops such as Ironfoe,headmasters charge and the barons black blade don't drop in diremaul.
I could keep going for hours, but this progressive itemisation idea is just hyperbole.
Theres a heap of reasons to still do the other dungeon content.
-Enchanting matts that can only be found consistantly in live strat, also the "lesser" dungeons have a heap of bosses that drop other enchanting matts.
-Recipes. Again, theres a heap of them outside DM that drop good/essential recipes for raiding.
-Tip's own argument of the cannoneer neck piece debunks this as the neck drops in live strat, not Dire maul.
-Gearing up is easier on your entire group/guild if they're not shoe-horned into the same 3 instances ad naeseum.
-No attunements require you to go to diremaul.
-No dungeon set pieces exist in diremaul, and while some pieces are terrible some are pretty ok.
-Certain rare dungeon drops such as Ironfoe,headmasters charge and the barons black blade don't drop in diremaul.
I could keep going for hours, but this progressive itemisation idea is just hyperbole.
11/03/2018 10:16 PMPosted by MetrohahaIf they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
They said in the Q and A they're not rebalancing raids.
11 mp5 trinkets, it was really important to me. I still have those trinkets in my bank, just cuz it took forever to farm them.
11/03/2018 10:16 PMPosted by MetrohahaDire maul has some seriously strong items but frankly without it the game doesn't feel completed. There is so little 5 man content without the dire maul set that it's kind of hard to believe it was ever omitted.
However how much it matters will also matter on whether they make changes to end game. Now that we know they are actually using 2005 data directly that may be the best or worst thing we found out this weekend.
It could be bad because it might lead the development to not understand how much easier things were at the end of the expansion and allow them to be lazy and not take any action to remedy this.
If they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
I do hope they at least consider a rebalance of pve, but I have a feeling that if they dont this will just end up like every other classic project where people are demanding fresh servers 6 months into progression.
But how does that affect you? In vanilla I was not a good player. I started in 2006 and struggled with BWL. I never saw AQ.
Yet according to the logic you presented, the game should be super easy at that point because I have access to easier items.
I do not believe every single player in classic will be a hardcore player. A vast majority of people are not going to be speed running raids. They’re going to get stuck on raids and they will play casually.
Just because some guilds on my server were doing Naxx while I was stuck in BWL didn’t ruin the game for me. Nor did people call for new servers. Sure a vast minority of hardcore players might, but when you finish your dinner in 2 minutes, don’t complain when you need to wait for the rest of the table to finish to be excused.
Tribute gear is better than MC and some BWL gear.
Most people had not cleared MC by the time Dire Maul was released, im guessing the issue is more the 1.12 balancing.
Though to get a rough idea of how Dire maul at launxh would be a fac5or, when was it usually released on pservers?
Also just because everything fell in those 4 groups does not mean everything in that group releases at once and/or that stuff cant be moved from group to group, they said they were looking to us for help there.
Though to get a rough idea of how Dire maul at launxh would be a fac5or, when was it usually released on pservers?
Also just because everything fell in those 4 groups does not mean everything in that group releases at once and/or that stuff cant be moved from group to group, they said they were looking to us for help there.
11/03/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Thundathys11/03/2018 10:16 PMPosted by MetrohahaIf they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
They said in the Q and A they're not rebalancing raids.
Did they? Do you happen to have a source for that?
11/03/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Menard11/03/2018 10:16 PMPosted by MetrohahaDire maul has some seriously strong items but frankly without it the game doesn't feel completed. There is so little 5 man content without the dire maul set that it's kind of hard to believe it was ever omitted.
However how much it matters will also matter on whether they make changes to end game. Now that we know they are actually using 2005 data directly that may be the best or worst thing we found out this weekend.
It could be bad because it might lead the development to not understand how much easier things were at the end of the expansion and allow them to be lazy and not take any action to remedy this.
If they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
I do hope they at least consider a rebalance of pve, but I have a feeling that if they dont this will just end up like every other classic project where people are demanding fresh servers 6 months into progression.
But how does that affect you? In vanilla I was not a good player. I started in 2006 and struggled with BWL. I never saw AQ.
Yet according to the logic you presented, the game should be super easy at that point because I have access to easier items.
I do not believe every single player in classic will be a hardcore player. A vast majority of people are not going to be speed running raids. They’re going to get stuck on raids and they will play casually.
Just because some guilds on my server were doing Naxx while I was stuck in BWL didn’t ruin the game for me. Nor did people call for new servers. Sure a vast minority of hardcore players might, but when you finish your dinner in 2 minutes, don’t complain when you need to wait for the rest of the table to finish to be excused.
Didn't you say in another thread you didn't start until wotlk.
11/03/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Thundathys11/03/2018 10:16 PMPosted by MetrohahaIf they do not attempt to rebalance the early raids and allow things like late classic itemization come with launch then the raids will continue to be cleared in 1 night with no progression or competetive scene past speed runs like we saw in the private scene.
They said in the Q and A they're not rebalancing raids.
Seems bad if it's going to be 16 all the way through in the long run. Would be okay for the first few runs where people don't have good gear but after getting raiding gear....... Easier content =/= fun
11/03/2018 10:25 PMPosted by Cyberreturns<span class="truncated">...</span>
But how does that affect you? In vanilla I was not a good player. I started in 2006 and struggled with BWL. I never saw AQ.
Yet according to the logic you presented, the game should be super easy at that point because I have access to easier items.
I do not believe every single player in classic will be a hardcore player. A vast majority of people are not going to be speed running raids. They’re going to get stuck on raids and they will play casually.
Just because some guilds on my server were doing Naxx while I was stuck in BWL didn’t ruin the game for me. Nor did people call for new servers. Sure a vast minority of hardcore players might, but when you finish your dinner in 2 minutes, don’t complain when you need to wait for the rest of the table to finish to be excused.
Didn't you say in another thread you didn't start until wotlk.
I started in March 2006 and got the game as a birthday present.
But if someone beating a raid faster than you makes you upset about the game and wanting fresh servers. Well then Method would have caused people to quit the game already.
Classic WoW is about the journey. Isn’t that what people wanted? If you rush and then complain you finished too quickly, that’s not the end of the world. Take a break. Or work on other aspects of the game.
Just because you beat Molten core faster than others doesn’t meant you beat World of Warcraft.
11/03/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Galdor11/03/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Thundathys...
They said in the Q and A they're not rebalancing raids.
Did they? Do you happen to have a source for that?
Got that info secondhand off a streamer/youtuber I strongly dislike and however much I dislike him and his fanbase he is reliableish for info. Will see if I can get this confirmed. Properly
11/03/2018 10:25 PMPosted by Bangnfire11/03/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Thundathys...
They said in the Q and A they're not rebalancing raids.
Seems bad if it's going to be 16 all the way through in the long run. Would be okay for the first few runs where people don't have good gear but after getting raiding gear....... Easier content =/= fun
Side tracking from the actual reason of this post but........
They're doing a semi- progressive release in 4 "patches"
P1=MC,Ony and the first 2 world bosses.
P2=BWL and ZG
P3 AQ and the green dargons
P4 naxx,
I don't think it's a big issue overall. We all knew MC will get steamrolled whether it was 8 or 16, Gives people more time to do content or even take abit of a breather before other patches demand more effort.
From a future GM's perspective I actually like the idea of staggered content as it will let me and my guild finish content before the next "patch" and be able to take a break from progression and actually enjoy farm nights.
dire maul brings lots of new items,
tanks have a hard time getting defense before dire maul
healers have a hard time getting +healing gear before dire maul
casters have a hard time getting +damage and +hit gear dire maul
not to mention the tribute buffs you can obtain, +200 attack power, +3% spell crit and +15% stamina making raid progression way way easier
there are also trinkets for every class and the warrior sword quel serrar again making tanking easier
dire maul also brings new enchants that further increase player power
also gold farming is something that comes easier inside dire maul, early game economy becomes very inflated when players know how to make the most of dire maul farming methods (mage dog packs, hunter trib solo)
it is such a huge chunk of content that it is much better released along side azuregos and kazzak only imo, feels so much better when the content is spread out more like retail was
tanks have a hard time getting defense before dire maul
healers have a hard time getting +healing gear before dire maul
casters have a hard time getting +damage and +hit gear dire maul
not to mention the tribute buffs you can obtain, +200 attack power, +3% spell crit and +15% stamina making raid progression way way easier
there are also trinkets for every class and the warrior sword quel serrar again making tanking easier
dire maul also brings new enchants that further increase player power
also gold farming is something that comes easier inside dire maul, early game economy becomes very inflated when players know how to make the most of dire maul farming methods (mage dog packs, hunter trib solo)
it is such a huge chunk of content that it is much better released along side azuregos and kazzak only imo, feels so much better when the content is spread out more like retail was