Assuming because you need 40 good geared people, bringing all kinds of flasks, pots, world buffs, world items, etc it’d take a very long time to even come close to getting all the gear you wanted from naxx. What do you estate how long it could take to get every piece of gear you want?
Id say it takes 3 to 4 months minimum of full clears to get the entire raid fully t3
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Worth pointing out that anyone on the warrior token isn’t getting any tier gear until you have 8 warriors with full t3, to beat 4h encounter… And that’s assuming none of them quit during that time.
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The biggest problem with this is that a lot of guilds tend to disperse after KT dies.
Assuming full re-clears every week is an easier calculation, but figuring out if your guild is going to stay together after a lot of raiders have achieved their “beat the game” goal is a different matter.
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Let us take the max gear slots and multiply it by 40. 17x40 = 680. So Now we need to know/average how many epics can drop off the bosses. 15 bosses in total and with random epic drops off trash we can average it to 4 epics per boss. 15x4 = 60 epics per week. 680/60 = 11.33. So if every drop went perfectly it would take around 11.33 weeks to get a full raid geared out.
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Well tg at means rogues are screwed
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Yeah it’s one of the reason Rogues drop off in Naxx (though not the only reason)…
You basically need to farm AQ40 for a while and get bis from there, then spend your naxx DKP on Weapons/Trinkets/offset while the warriors are more or less forced to spend theirs on tier.
What sucks if your guild doesn’t keep clearing AQ40 once Naxx comes out, and you still need a lot of gear from there (and many don’t, since naxx can take most if not all the week’s raid schedule), and like mentioned above, the guild basically quits on you the moment that KT dies, rather than being dedicated to keep farming it out so you get your chance to gear up.
At least in theory, my guild never even got the 8 tanks part before general apathy with TBC coming started killing raid attendance. 4h, Saph, and KT are on my list yet.
The good news, however, is getting your weapon(s) is probably the bigger deal to a rogue overall… especially if you want to PvP, since the AQ40’s 5pc for rogue gives a pretty beastly boost to evisc, and that might be more impactful than anything t3 gives beyond stats
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Apocalypse, you seem quite knowledgeable. If one wanted to play a ranged dps, which do you think is the better choice: mage or warlock. Which is easier to gear? I know mages are more in demand, but fewer players play warlock…so it kind of evens out. And the subjective…which is more fun? More wanted, more useful, etc. Basically if you just wanted to give a breakdown of the two. And then maybe a few thoughts on hunter as well if you desire.
So assuming RNG, players quitting, and how nothing ever goes according to plan… let’s double that number. About 23 weeks of full clearing to gear the entire 40 man raid in Naxx gear. And that’s not counting the weeks of progression and partial clears it took to work up to just killing KT. This is all assuming you have the same 40 people showing up week after week.
Large caveat that everyone is overlooking is the release of content. Naxx is the last content release and we dont know when it will come to the game. Assuming it comes even after a year (thats a 3 month release schedule) you would have to bank on everyone still playing by then. Something were not 100% on.
So with that being said, I’m sure people will clear Naxx but I’m not sure how popular it will be. Only time will tell!
I’m not going to be the best source for that, as I’m coming into it with a TON of personal bias… That said (I’m apparently about to build Trump’s border wall entirely out of text) :
Basically, for me, Warlock absolutely embarrasses mage in every aspect of the game during vanilla, barring one single area: pve dps… (ok, maybe 2 areas, since mages absolutely floor locks in useful aoe for both pve and pvp)…
But warlocks end up with way more rotational variety, way more pvp build variety, vastly different playstyle variety depending on spec, higher burst damage, the best execute in the game, are easier to get groups on via less competition, easier to gear in general, even before accounting for less competition, and at least early in vanilla didn’t need consumables to reach the threat cap.
I’d also add better lore, quests (EL POLLO GRANDE is one of the most amazing things ever), and lifetap/the whole “your health is mana” system is glorious.
I never was able to get super into mages, simply because I started on the lock in OG… And the instincts between the two are different enough that any attempts to play mage just felt “wrong” to me… With lock being significantly more controlled and meticulous a playstyle. For example, a frost mage would be fine closing into nova range (and arguably wants to do that), but getting that close to a target as a lock (unless soul link) is going to end up with you eating dirt… Meanwhile locks pvp rotation off a seduce changes dynamically with your distance to target /spec… 36 yard range and you can shadowbolt twice before the first lands (but not vs rogues who will vanish the 2nd), 35 yards and you only get one off. Lots of little things like that gave the class depth.
I’d also add… Locks have enough buttons in vanilla that different locks had their own noticeable styles… There was a husband /wife rank 14 pair on my server’s alliance, the husband being a shadow main, but they both played the wife’s lock to get her rank 14 title… Without personally ever knowing either of them, I could tell which was playing the lock in BGs because, despite being the same soul link - shadow burn spec (see Dacke videos for an idea, same basic build), they played the class entirely and noticeably different from each other. It actually really threw me off for a bit until I found out it was different people, since my moves to counter the expected moves ended up being how I’d have countered the other one.
So yeah, I’m probably not the best person to compare mage vs lock because I’m extremely biased towards lock in vanilla… As for Hunters, my only experience at all with them was my like 8th or so character during one of the wod pvp seasons… I’d never play one in vanilla simply because of ammo, feeding the pets to keep them happy, and the dead zone… But I mean, again personal bias shining through, as I’m sure a number of hunters found those systems cool and engaging… Meanwhile I know a number of people that hated the shard system, hated how weak locks could be vs melee (which you handle by knowing how to not get into those situations to begin with) , and /or didn’t like the lifetap / “health IS mana” system for locks because our spells where pretty mana intensive as a result… While I enjoyed all of those things as features for locks.
Bit of a ramble, but my morning coffee hasn’t quite kicked in yet.
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There will still be a lot of ret, feral, enhance, shadow specced players willing to fill in the missing gaps but the raid leader would never be willing to take them as they just aren’t viable for Naxx.
not true actually you can cheese this fight with spell hit trinkets, people just didn’t try it back in 2005.
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Yep sounds about right.
Did that have more to do with KT dying, or TBC releasing?
(Or are you speaking of PSs?)
Can I have some candy?
And BTW, your curse of weakness is about to run out.
PS: sorry I had to do it
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Thanks. Good to know. Still no idea which one I’m leaning towards. ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
Mage is probably a little more my style. I like all the cc and aoeing potential. But Warlock is just so damn cool.
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You don’t need the T3 warrior 4-pc set bonus to beat 4hm. You just need to get your warrior tanks the trinket from the ZG fishing boss that increases spell hit by 10% on demand.
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I wish my guild at the time had known about this when we where doing it, but great info to know now going into Classic. Gives me hope that I might one day get my rogue alt some naxx gear as well, or even give it some more consideration as a potential main, since that was a major factor.
Sounds like someone wants to be summoned off the BRM cliff, straight into the lava again.
One minor thing on that note, and relating back to:
Worth pointing out, that Lock CC completely removes opposing player control from them… mage relies more on snares/roots or unreliable proc stuns… This was another thing that always bothered me, when playing a mage, and a large reason I favored Lock and Rogue so heavily as my prefferred classes… both of them can completely disable you while dealing damage, and consistently.
Lock in particular, if you end up being a succubus user (as horde at least) have a fairly intensely brutal capability to “CC lock” people down while killing them, and while providing very few windows to be attacked back in turn… It does require pretty good knowledge your spell’s various cast times, travel distances, and your relative distance to target, however. For example, a yard here or there is the difference between getting 2 nukes off vs one, or the difference between your fear landing just before shadowbolt/soulfire does and immediately breaking from the big damage, rather than a millisecond after and preventing the target from ever responding as they sit in a full fear.
fixed that for you.
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