You can keep trying to change my argument all you like, it just makes you look like even more of a liar. You said classic hunters were designed and identified by the ranged weapon and a pet. I’ve clearly pointed out that melee was also a part of that design. You don’t like it, and keep trying to change the point I made. I don’t care if you like it or not, but hunter was designed with both melee and ranged.
Says the person who literally changes their argument when they can’t defend it.
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No i’m saying it is what it is now, a hybrid melee/ranged. It makes sense considering the history of hunter and blizzard’s vision moving forward. It performs well and is fun for a niche spec.
They already moved away from mop with all the pruning that was done and only some is coming back in SL. Mm and Bm will be getting more utility as well. Right now, if you take explosive, scatter shot and wyvern sting on mm than it is basically old school survival minus the melee abilities like counter attack, improved raptor strike and wing clip, deterrence, and savage strikes. But melee was never a focus of sv right
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Being designed and identified by X =/= X being a part of the design. Something can be a part of a design without it being designed and identified by that part. Hunter was designed and identified by the ranged weapon and the pet, not melee attacks.
It makes zero sense considering the history of Hunter. Hunter has never been a melee class. It has always been ranged. In Classic it had melee attacks and abilities intended to assist its ranged repertoire, not the other way around like current SV.
Scatter shot is primarily a MM ability/talent, not SV. Wyvern Sting was never really a strong aspect of the spec, as its usage was very limited. Explosive Shot in the MM talent tree is a completely different ability from the old Explosive Shot. Furthermore, it is still burdened by MM’s kit. This would be MM with a few parody ranged SV abilities, not ‘basically ranged survival’.
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Survival was originally focused on buffing traps which all hunter spec current have, but additionally adding melee enhancements to improve the close combat survival necessities because of the deadzone.
Current survival is not a pure melee build, it just uses melee as a primary weapon because we have a 1 wep type lock now. Almost all of our talents enhance our ranged abilities.
There are already 2 ranged hunter specs with similar trapping capabilities to survival, so yes it makes sense to have 1/3 specs for a niche that was always part of hunter. Truth is mm and rsv were similar because in the days of talent trees everyone would build into all the trees simultaneously to compliment each other. With that gone it made the most sense to use survival, which was always the more melee focused build, into the spec that uses melee weps.
It will never be the same and my point is that you can build mm into something closer to what rsv used to be if you choose. Melee now has a place in hunter and sv makes the most sense for that like it or not.
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But again, Hunter has never been a melee class. In Legion Blizzard changed it to pure melee, and only because of their backtracking is it receiving any ranged abilities.
I don’t believe you when you say that you used to play Hunter. Survival could easily be made into its own spec separate from MM. Current melee SV is also nothing like how the Hunter class used to play. Even those who specced heavily into SV in classic still used ranged attacks. There was never such a thing as a melee Hunter outside of memes. A melee Hunter then was as much of a joke as a ‘wand mage’ now. So unless you were one of those memelord Hunters whacking target dummies with your melee weapon and acting like Rexxar, because your playstyle wasn’t viable in dungeons, raids, PvP or low level questing, then no current melee SV is absolutely, positively, nothing like any Hunter you’ve ever played prior to Legion. Show me where Harpoon was in Classic. Show me where Carve was in Classic. Show me where Mongoose Bite gave you a stacking damage buff in Classic. You can’t, because they didn’t exist.
The only reason melee has a place in Hunter now is because Blizzard deleted the ranged SV for no reason, and forced in a spec that didn’t belong. It only ‘has a place’ in the Hunter class in the same way that a dog turd has a place in a bowl of soup. Ya, it’s there, technically occupying space in the soup, but that doesn’t mean it belongs there nor does it mean that all soup must now be eaten with the addition of a dog turd.
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Of course, it was the logic course to take to add something new. As state by Ion in interview on survival… they are happy about it and looking to push it further.
Some folks here are just to thick and refuse any changes. Some want the game to move the way THEY want and not the way the game creator wants.
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Let them push it farther, just give RSV back as a 4th spec and everyone wins.
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Yeah I get it. You miss the old spec. You keep glossing over the points I’m making about survival not even being a true melee spec. It incorporates and brings old talents to the forefront with a new vision. When you look at our talents and kit it shows that range is a large part of it.
Obviously the few talents they moved to mm and bm as a concession aren’t going to make either of those specs into what sv used to be.
You are in no position to say what hunter is supposed to be, you are one player. Blizzard is the only one who gets to decide what a class vision is. Melee was always a part (but not the focus - i’ll give you that) of hunter. It’s still not the focus as evidenced by the fact sv is the most underrepresented spec and as a whole (2/3) hunter is primarily a ranged dps.
There is nothing wrong with blizzard deciding they want hunter to have a niche melee hybrid role without completely designing it from the ground up. As a spec it’s no less a hunter than bm or mm. I trap, I shoot, I throw bombs, I track and tame pets, and I use old school spear hunting techniques.
Sv is clearly not for you and I hope you find happiness in bm or mm. Can’t have a conversation if you only care about repeatedly saying it should never have changed. We all know you don’t like it.
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Thats not how it work. Thats not going to make everyone happy. But feel free to think it actually would.
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Yes I have come to realize they do not care for explanation or meaningful conversation. They just want what they want and everything else is nonsense.
I see why the made the change and I appreciate what they did to make it into something new and interesting. I am enjoying it thoroughly. Same with blood dk. At first I was annoyed it became a tank but then I came to love tanking on it.
Didn’t say it would make anyone happy. I said everyone would win.
Which comes to the same thing, not everyone would. There’s more than just Hunter players on this game.
Yeah, but can you name 1 other class that had one of it’s specs so fundamentally changed?
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Spriest
Blood DK
Frost DK
Demo Locks
Affliction lock
Outlaw rogue
In before you attempt to make the argument going melee is more than anything, its not.
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Still a ranged caster.
Changed from dps to tank but still melee plate.
Changed from tank to dps but still melee plate.
still ranged caster focusing on demons.
Still a ranged caster focusing on dots.
Still a rogue, just had the name changed.
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And they all changed like Survival… none play really like what it used to be. Some of them would want the old play style back too.
Forgot to add
Ele Sham
Enh Sham
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Not a single other class had a spec go from being 100% ranged to 100% melee. That is a complete and fundamental shift in how the spec plays.
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Survival hunter - uses ranged dots, ranged animal commands and ranged traps. Tames beasts. Focuses on an ability from classic wow, raptor strike for st melee. Adds one melee aoe and gap closer. Turns raptor strike into a ranged attack for a period of time.
100% melee? serpent sting, wildfire bombs, kill command, crows, and all traps are ranged. Aspect of the eagle turns our 1 single target melee attack beside auto into a ranged attack. Also pvp talents: viper sting, spider sting, scorpid sting…all ranged
I still kite the same way I do on mm or bm when I have to. I’m just not running 100% of the time, that’s the fundamental change.
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Going from black arrows lnl procs etc to throwing down the bow grabbing a stick to run in to swing wildly and throw bombs at point blank range where you and your pet is, is a vastly different vs dk shaman etc changes. I dont see priest from going from a shadow caster, to a cloth wearing barbarian swinging a club.
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