10/27/2018 11:39 PMPosted by Espurcasual players have been able to raid since before LFR was introduced
Not all of them.
Not all of them.
10/27/2018 11:44 PMPosted by TadkinsNot all of them.
If they're not willing to step their level of performance up, then no. If they're willing to devote a bit of time to improving themselves and to spend 6~ hours a week or so raiding, they could. That's if they had a more normal schedule of course, and didn't have life commitments. But it's a game - you choose what you want.
Doing LFR takes about as much time as raiding does unless you're in a more hardcore guild.
Fun fact: I don't like raiding for long periods either. A guild I was in for a while raided 12 hours a week, that was way too much for me and so I left. I found a guild that raided 6 hours a week, two hours a day, on days that worked for me and it was much better.
10/27/2018 11:46 PMPosted by EspurIf they're not willing to step their level of performance up, then no. If they're willing to devote a bit of time to improving themselves and to spend 6~ hours a week or so raiding, they could. That's if they had a more normal schedule of course, and didn't have life commitments. But it's a game - you choose what you want.
Doing LFR takes about as much time as raiding does unless you're in a more hardcore guild.
People were excluded from raiding for a multitude of reasons. Time constraints, not having the right connections on your server, etc.
So yes, not all casual players got to raid before LFR.
10/27/2018 11:34 PMPosted by HamburgersIt's no coincidence that LFR was introduced in Cata and that's the expansion where this game started it's long descent into the current state it's in.
Pattern Recognition
Wrath
Cata
MoP
WoD
Legion
BFA
???
10/27/2018 11:48 PMPosted by TadkinsPeople were excluded from raiding for a multitude of reasons. Time constraints, not having the right connections on your server, etc.
So yes, not all casual players got to raid before LFR.
The raiding community is not a hivemind. If someone is regularly excluded from raiding wherever they turned to, the fault is more likely with them than anything else.
QFT10/27/2018 01:49 PMPosted by Aliandrin10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosànctIn LFR the mechanics pretty much don't matter. Too the point where it usually only requires 5 people doing them properly to beat the boss. This creates bad habits, so that by the time you try your first normal mode you have no idea what you are actually doing.
Most LFR heroes do not graduate to normal.
Not only is this a moot point, but I'll explain for you what happened.
1. Blizz released LFR. The game is not designed for Blizz to teach you the game - it is designed for other players to teach you the game.
2. You abused people in LFR who didn't know the fights instead of teaching them.
3. Blizz made the fights so they didn't require you to teach them, because you wouldn't.
If only you LFR-haters could just bring yourself to admit that you're bothered by the fact that a casual player has the opportunity to earn the same drops that you feel only you are entitled to.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LFR players "earning" anything.
Now that's funny.
LFR is full of people dying 10 secs into encounters or just outright being afk the entire fight. Really earning those titanforged pieces of loot.
It's all well and good that LFR players can see the content but the gear shouldn't be able to titan/warforge because in what world should that gear be equal to someone who puts the time in to do Heroic or Mythic raiding.
The whole system is a joke and it always has been.
10/27/2018 07:45 AMPosted by SacrosànctFirst off: To all the people who clicked this simply to call me an elitist be quick about it so the adults can talk.
That is a horrible way to start off a discussion. You should never start off any intent at dialog with a direct insult to people who might be reading. Even if you're not insulting the specific reader, it puts them on the defensive anyhow, and makes you look like a hostile person.
10/27/2018 11:52 PMPosted by EillaQFT
It's not true at all. It isn't anyone's responsibility to teach others how to play and do the content they signed up for. It's not anyone's responsibility to coddle you and make sure they step carefully to avoid triggering you. Even those who legitimately try to help get burned by people who insult them or tell them to shut up because, "it's my $15".
Raiders didn't ruin LFR. LFR players ruined it. Hell, Blizzard ruined it at its conception.
Pretty sure there's no such thing as server groups anymore. You act like Oceanic is some paradise of great players and really nice people, but that's not actually the case from what I've seen. They're the same as everyone else.
You do not speak for the abilities of players in OCE, EU, KR or the other 240 nations where WOW is played, , your anecdotal experiences are limited to the few servers you interact with and no one else.
You do not speak for the abilities of players in OCE, EU, KR, your anecdotal experiences are limited to the few servers you interact with and no one else.
Okay, that doesn't change the fact that LFR players are generally the lowest skilled in the game. Doing content that requires little to no effort and skill makes for lazy players.
Frankly this all so amusing. LFR, is already dead. Willing to bet the numbers using it have dropped considerably. Why bother with it, when loot rains from the skies? There are so many ways to get equivalent or better gear, it's not funny. I'll do it once, to see the story, if I can work up that much interest, and that's probably it. For my money, LFR'ers should get better gear than normal raiding, it's far more demanding overall.
The OP et al. should be railing against dailies. World bosses. Warfronts. Mythic dungeons. PvP. All of which, are not raiding. All of which, can drop equivalent or better epics, for far less effort than slogging through the shambolic disaster on roller skates called LFR.
So pretty much, Blizz should remove everything in the game, to satisfy the elitists, who think all good things should only flow from raiding.
"We had to destroy the village, to save it". LOL.
The OP et al. should be railing against dailies. World bosses. Warfronts. Mythic dungeons. PvP. All of which, are not raiding. All of which, can drop equivalent or better epics, for far less effort than slogging through the shambolic disaster on roller skates called LFR.
So pretty much, Blizz should remove everything in the game, to satisfy the elitists, who think all good things should only flow from raiding.
"We had to destroy the village, to save it". LOL.
10/27/2018 11:49 PMPosted by EspurThe raiding community is not a hivemind. If someone is regularly excluded from raiding wherever they turned to, the fault is more likely with them than anything else.
Doesn't matter. I said that casual players got excluded and that statement is true.
10/28/2018 12:04 AMPosted by TadkinsDoesn't matter. I said that casual players got excluded and that statement is true.
Anyone can be excluded for any number of reasons. Casuals being excluded for specific reasons doesn't change anything.
Melee don't really complain that they often get excluded from recruitment for being melee, 'cause y'know, that's their choice - to play melee. Just as it's a casual players' choice to play casually. I was also a casual for a long, long time, even when I was raiding heroic this expansion and even Mythic in the past.
I don't spend 4 hours playing the game daily nor did I grind the hell out of content to get gear.
10/27/2018 11:27 PMPosted by Espur10/27/2018 11:19 PMPosted by ClystaMany lfr raiders are mythic raiders as well and lfr is a good intro to raiding without all the toxicity
If they're mythic raiders, they're not LFR "raiders". They merely do it for more chances at loot on alts. And honestly that's far less common nowadays with the advent of M+.
LFR has been about the most toxic experience I've ever had in raiding, during Mists when I was doing it. Giving people no consequence to their actions leads to some pretty bad things.
they can do both, ive been in guilds were players do and not on alts either, they do lfr runs for the guild and mythic by invite
Okay, that doesn't change the fact that LFR players are generally the lowest skilled in the game.
Based on what criteria and with what facts to back it up? Other than your very limited anecdotal experience?
Doing content that requires little to no effort and skill makes for lazy players.
LFR is run by a vast variety of players across the board.
Again you are assuming a great deal over players you dont know, have never met, and have never seen play , you have no factual proof to verify your sweeping sneer that everyone is as bad as the ones you have seen..as I said..maybe its your servers.
10/28/2018 12:06 AMPosted by EspurAnyone can be excluded for any number of reasons. Casuals being excluded for specific reasons doesn't change anything.
You said...
10/27/2018 11:39 PMPosted by Espurcasual players have been able to raid since before LFR
And I said that not all casuals got to, which is true. I'm sure some did, but not all. And that alone justifies the existence of LFR.
10/28/2018 12:07 AMPosted by AehlBased on what criteria and with what facts to back it up? Other than your very limited anecdotal experience?
Based on the fact LFR is the easiest content in the game and they still somehow fail to kill the boss a lot.
LFR is run by a vast variety of players across the board.
Again you are assuming a great deal over players you dont know, have never met, and have never seen playu , you have no factual proof to verify your sweeping sneer that everyone is as bad as the ones you have seen..as I said..maybe its your servers.
Correct. Every bit of content is run by a vast variety of players, no matter what. There are skilled LFR players. There are unskilled raiders. That doesn't change the fact that generally, the average skill level of an LFR player is lower.
I'm also going off of the forums from what I've seen, and from other games in ground floor content.
10/28/2018 12:08 AMPosted by TadkinsAnd I said that not all casuals got to, which is true. I'm sure some did, but not all. And that alone justifies the existence of LFR.
Being able to raid is not the same as being guaranteed to raid. If you have a sporadic play schedule, real life commitments, and aren't willing to improve yourself and work with a team, few raid teams will want you. And that's your own decisions leading to that result.
Sure, that does justify LFR's existence. They could also have made LFR a single player scenario so players could see the content and spin the wheel to see if they get loot. There is no reason at all to have it be 25 players rather than 1 player and 24 NPCs.
LFR is bad cus it gives people the wrong impression of what raiding is.
LFR is a toxic cesspool that i never want to step into again. Notice my zero LFR kills.
The problem with LFR, is that LFR raiders get a bad impression of what raiding is, they also get the impression, well i can kill all the bosses everyweek, why try for higher / harder content. theres no point.
Proper guild raiding is so much more fun.
I'm going to say, without a doubt, having raided WoW off and on for over a decade. The banter during raids is probably the best part of raiding. Even as a more passive person, it just enriches the experience.
I dont hate LFR players or look down on them or anything. I just wish they'd have more incentive or reason to take the step up. i feel like theres a massive pool of LFR players who feel too intimidated to go to normal even though they're more than skilled enough for it.
LFR is a toxic cesspool that i never want to step into again. Notice my zero LFR kills.
The problem with LFR, is that LFR raiders get a bad impression of what raiding is, they also get the impression, well i can kill all the bosses everyweek, why try for higher / harder content. theres no point.
Proper guild raiding is so much more fun.
I'm going to say, without a doubt, having raided WoW off and on for over a decade. The banter during raids is probably the best part of raiding. Even as a more passive person, it just enriches the experience.
I dont hate LFR players or look down on them or anything. I just wish they'd have more incentive or reason to take the step up. i feel like theres a massive pool of LFR players who feel too intimidated to go to normal even though they're more than skilled enough for it.
10/27/2018 11:59 PMPosted by EspurOkay, that doesn't change the fact that LFR players are generally the lowest skilled in the game. Doing content that requires little to no effort and skill makes for lazy players.
Your point being, what? You going to let them raid with you? Going to take them under your wing, help them get geared, teach them how to play their class? Not to be an elitist myself, but quite a few of these people are lucky to chew gum and walk at the same time. If LFR keeps them happy and content, paying a sub fee, and not in your guild begging to raid, you should get on bended knee and thank Blizz for introducing it. How many in the average guild, and how many of them get a raid slot every week? How many of them are capable of raiding outside of being carried in a guild fun run?