Overloaded with god tier pvp talents , old abilities, and easy damage. Albeit still a higher skill cap than current Sub Rogues because of all the preemptive utlity you have to manage if you pilot a Warrior at even 50% of its potential it will outperform almost every meele.
2 Likes
Honestly, it means nothing without MoP Second Wind and they’ll be C tier without it.
24 Likes
I really feel like it’s the most slept on class right now (Outside of the slam azerite being overtuned on prepatch ofc). Their toolkit is really unfair on beta, every single pvp talent is god tier, this iteration of intervene/ignore pain is super strong, and kyrian actually looks busted with the ursoc vortex thing and the kyrian heal. (With the 55% over 10 second conduit you can rallying/bm and lay on hand yourself xD). I’m pretty sure it’s on a 1 min CD and helps a lot for uptime which was one of their weaknesses.
The best melee by far with sub imo
what newness in the kit is under the microscope? baseline reflect is trading with losing conflict major, so the honor talents enemy warriors have aren’t going to change except by relativity as everybody else loses conflict major without getting a talent back(druids getting clone back is the same and rogues getting poisons isn’t exactly this but it’s close)
intervene lasts way too long, everybody with a brain agrees on that. it should be a charge or a shorter blanket, no question.
is there really a problem besides damage? is it 100% that war would be playable if its damage became bad?
warrior genuinely the most interesting melee in the game by being reverted almost faithfully to an earlier expansions iteration.
Actually so toxic that warrior got almost their entire kit back like it’s nothing. Warrior dev needs to intimidating shout the rest of the devs and get them in line.
3 Likes
i have to ask you as well-spell reflect went from a talent to a baseline as we lost conflict major and thus retain the same 2ish talents that can be swapped around if sharpen remains mandatory. what did we get back besides intervene? is howl that huge of a deal?
Besides intervene, I think that ignore pain is a little overtuned on beta (And slam undertuned). Again the kyrian ability has a control tied to it and is super strong.
Overall it’s probably the best rounded melee (sry dunno if that’s english lol) and I’m super happy they got so much back, it’s just annoying that some classes didn’t get the same attention as warrior/sp.
gotcha, i haven’t taken in enough beta to pay attention to that. i’m glad IP isn’t utterly useless, but it’s definitely a problem if it’s rly good+slam isn’t good, rage has to matter offensively for it to be ok that spending it defensively is so rewarding.
i sympathize, that’s how i felt looking at assa in bfa
Shatter. Howl’s a pretty big deal I’d say tho yeah. really strong tool. any ranged snare is.
Warriors toolkit still has a lot locked behind talents ofc. But it’s almost all there. I can’t think of much utility wise that’s actually missing from the class apart from Intercept.
Baseline traditional spell reflect is idk. debatably stronger than talented? Since it frees up a talent for something else.
right nvm forgot about conflict for a second
Ofc it’s a huge weakness compared to true reflection like you had.
Also don’t know what to classify ignore pain as. Is it a return? didn’t legion or wod warrior have some kind of rage dump for mitigation idr.
Be nice if warrior got imp hamstring back from monks. Freaking monks.
Oh i guess warrior’s missing demo shout and some cds huh. Like reck or shield wall.
t clap. heroic strike worth mentioning? mocking blow? did it have a use i can’t remember lol.
I haven’t really played beta since they introduced the PVE Trinkets but that was my feeling when trying warrior a month ago. I’m positive Magnus said the same thing about how ignore pain is currently too rewarding in comparaison to slam. I would just slightly shift power between those 2, but that’s just a tuning issue anyway 
Haven’t looked back to the Soulbinds but there is one focused around Rallying cry that seemed super good, and another one that reduces the cd of 2min die by the sword by a good chunk. Probably won’t mean a lot overall since it seems that most of the defensive soulbinds are really good across the board.
Also it’s one the spec that benefits the most from Pelagos (which is kinda OP) and unironically solves the self healing problem 
oh yeah i completely forgot that LOL. a 3 minute cd instead of a 5 minute and the new absorb functionality are both huge, good point
i’m tentative on that, because the number of movable talent slots only really changes if sharpen isn’t mandatory, which i can’t say for certain yet. if sharpen remains mandatory then the number of usable pvp talents arms has won’t have changed at all, same as the other specs that got a talent in their base kit(clone and shiv and priest death all come to mind)
legion i don’t remember one, wod had shield barrier as a spammable rage dump, but wod also direly had the problem that rage didn’t turn into extra damage afai remember, slam was a crummy talent and to get rend you had to make whirlwind your st filler. exactly the problem we’re talking about imo, rage being useless offensively makes its use defensively a non-choice. one hope for SL arms is that the slam ms legendary is important and spending gcds+rage on tons of slams to fish for ms resets will compete with debuff botting all enemies all the time a la BFA and IPing on cd as it apparently goes on beta now
mop had the imo BEST version of rage trading where being in d stance cut your rage instead of your damage-it had its own problems but it felt the most rewarding to keep an enemy warrior in d stance to me compared to any time since then.
i’ll have to look up the conduits and soulbinds senlym mentions, that sounds big.
2 Likes
I mean if all the defensive soulbinds are good that sounds like damp to me. (assuming tuning slows things down.)
I guess the contrary is also true, some offensive ones are flat damage increase, it’s impossible to tell how it will end up since everything is rank 1 on beta. I’ve checked it again and there’s another one that ties a dmg reduction to intervene, may be fun too.
1 Like
Holinkas main is warrior. That’s the only solution I can come up with.
There are like three well designed classes in wow right now and warrior is now one of them. The only reasonable response to this is “make every class have interesting utility”
1 Like
The devs should be looking at something like enhancement shaman…then look back at warriors…then look at enhancement shaman, and think to themselves “how can we improve enhancers to be fun like warrior”
2 Likes
plz give root
plz make ethereal form just shamanistic rage as a pvp talent
plz baseline ascendance
ty
5 Likes
Lol this is exactly what I was just thinking (partly because ive played enhance since TBC, partly because the two classes toolkits and potential to survive and do damage are so absurdly far apart)…when you look at warriors toolkit+PvP talents and compare it to enhance’s its a literal joke. As of right now, I dont see how on earth enhance is going to be viable…or even playable in arena. The meta is very bursty and fast right now, and while enhance can sometimes do decent burst with ascendance up, its damage isnt great, its mobility is bad compared to nearly every other melee, its ability to tank damage is PATHETIC(especially for a melee), and its CC is some of the worst in the game (2 sec delay for a 3 sec stun totem on a 1 min CD, that is often easily killed or dodged? And Hex has got to be one of the absolute worst forms of CC out there). Plus theyve clearly put absolutely zero time or thought into the PvP talents, almost all of which are terrible and have needed updating/changing for a long time especially given how incredibly weak enhance is/has been in PvP.
While Warriors kit is great, possibly even a little too good, enhance’s toolkit compares extremely badly to basically most every melee. Monk not only does more damage, but its way better at tanking damage and self healing and has far more defensive CDs and mobility, an actual good aoe stun, para, etc. Even ret’s toolkit is FAR better than enhance and can tank damage far better than enhance could ever dream of on top of having multiple immunity’s, really good self heals that are easily accessible and sustainable, one of the best stuns in the game, rep/blinding light, and in some ways actually has better mobility since enhance has to TALENT INTO feral lunge to even have a gap closer(and therefore sacrifice survivability talents in the same row when its survivability is already pathetic) and since ghost wolf renders you unable to actually do any damage/cast anything.
As of right now enhance looks like far and away the worst melee DPs in PvP, and possibly just the straight up worst DPS in PvP entirely. Its like the spec has been left behind and neglected for a decade while all the other melee have received defensives, more mobility, more gap closers, more self healing etc. and are what a “modern” melee looks like in PVP. I really dont see how enhance will be AT ALL viable, and I dont think thats an issue tuning can fix, the spec needs SIGNIFICANT help in the form of new abilities, talents, PvP talents, certain things made baseline etc. Otherwise enhance will just be laughed at and stunned+tunneled, down every arena match.
See devs, two great pieces of feedback for ya. Pls read above thx
I agree with 99% of what u said but a few misconceptions here that people don’t understand.
Ret only has in reality 1 immunity (divine shield), the other that many people reference is blessing of protection which is used more often as an extra trinket for your healer than anything else, bop is very rarely effective against anything in the game, the only thing atm being arms warrior and like mm hunter. (Bop can also be easily purged off).
Rep/blinding light are very rarely taken, fist of justice is the go to with the vast majority of our comps. However I would say hoj > capacitor totem. Hex is a very situational cc that isn’t bad but it having a cool down makes it far less effective.
I would say enhance mobility is about equal to ret mobility if not slightly better. (Horse is a meme, the only thing Ret really has going for it is unbound freedom, it can’t really talent into cavalier, and have to talent into our own nature’s guardian esq talent)