How is sylvanas cruelty justified at this point?

[Nioruf-thrall (Nioruf)]

I gave up on any meaningful “justification” or “redemption” for the Horde during the BfA beta.

Is there any point in justifying her actions now, though? No matter what happens with her character, a large portion of the player base is going to be unhappy. There isn’t a writer alive that could pull Sylvanas out of the hole she’s been written into before the expansion ends, so personally I’d rather just ignore her existence entirely until we know what her ultimate fate is.

[Grandblade-wyrmrest-accord (Grandblade)]

Both parties were wrong. Arthas did not take the effort that he could have done to save those of Stratholme that weren’t yet turned, and Jaina and Uther were totally irrresponsible in leaving the scene.

I agree, and in this scenario I would have sided with Arthas - at this point in time they knew basically nothing about the plague, or if it was even curable, and he had entire kingdom to be concerned about - but as he spiraled more and more into villainy, it’d be intriguing to see if people would side with him, perhaps out of spite as well.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

There isn’t a writer alive that could pull Sylvanas out of the hole she’s been written into before the expansion ends, so personally I’d rather just ignore her existence entirely until we know what her ultimate fate is.

I still think that Blizzard is going to pull a Gollum with her. That despite everything she’s done, she’s is going to be crucial in stopping the world-ending threat of the Old Gods. The same way Sargera’s Burning Crusade was aimed at a greater evil we knew nothing about.

[Ironbulwalk-frostmourne (Ironbulwalk)]

Logically? It isn’t. We don’t have all the facts yet and we haven’t seen the end of bone headed decisions to know for sure what the end result will be.

The only positive trait I see Sylvanas having is that compared to every other character if she has to make a hard choice based on sacrificing lives for the achievement of a greater goal then she won’t hesitate.

Will it be for or against the Horde? Who knows. She is at least smart enough to keep the Horde Champion close to know enough about what their current activities are for the duration of this ongoing conflict.

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

Traveling Son says: I feel bad that the elves lost their tree.

Traveling Warrior says: Why?

Traveling Son says: You told me that we orcs once lost our home.

Traveling Warrior says: That was long ago.

Traveling Son says: Didn’t it make everyone sad?

Traveling Warrior says: We were… not ourselves. It is difficult to explain, boy.

Traveling Son says: Mother spoke of it sometimes. I… I think it made her cry.

Traveling Son says: I don’t think anyone should lose their home. Not if it makes them feel like that.

Traveling Warrior says: You have your mother’s heart.

[Anyaceltica-llane (Anyaceltica)]

The entire forsaken race will most likely be uprooted, butchered, and turned into a cheap and easily-palatable shell of what initially attracted people to it.

Ah, the night elf treatment. Dont wish that on anyone.

[Roghter-ghostlands (Roghter)]

I just see zero justification for personally raising Summermoon to torment her.

Sometimes the Horde does bad, pointless, horrific things. Usually it’s in service of the Alliance story.

This is worse in that it’s a significant character in the Horde story doing it, rather than that time some no name orc warlock enslaved an entire village of pandaren by threatening to feed their children to his demon, but other than severity it’s not really anything new.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

Do you think if we had seven expansions of developing Arthas as a major character, people would have sided with him when he made those choices?

Would people side with him in Stratholme, or leave with Jaina and Uther?

If that was a gameplay option I am sure many would have sided with him for various reasons. Even just to see the world burn.

I would have left with Jaina and Uther. As a player and as RP. I never liked Arthas much. Watching him strip a Paladin of his rank would be egregious.

The wiser thing would have been to seek aid for the kingdom of Lordaeron amongst anyone. Warn everyone. Seek a way to escape if escape appeared to be the only choice. Save as many people in safer regions as possible. Send out an alert.

I don’t even understand the purpose of the Culling. It is still a rotting undead hell hole. Shoulda left it as wasted, and rallied else where.

Basically I would have done what Jaina did (in that specific scenario). And Medivh, with the warning a few people. They did the best they could given the circumstances.

[Gharion-ragnaros (Gharion)]

I would have helped Arthas cull Strat, if Jaina and Uther honestly thought the city could have been saved they would have stopped Arthas themselves- they certainly were powerful enough.

I would not follow him to northtrend, Arthas was clearly being baited and he fell for it hook, line and sinker. After i would pretty much do “The wiser thing would have been to seek aid for the kingdom of Lordaeron amongst anyone. Warn everyone. Seek a way to escape if escape appeared to be the only choice. Save as many people in safer regions as possible. Send out an alert.” Like you said.

Well either that or get killed by the scourge -Arthas did slam dunk his old kingdom incredibly fast- and get turned into a dk.

Soo, nothing changes really.

[Irenaus-wyrmrest-accord (Irenaus)]

I would have helped Arthas cull Strat, if Jaina and Uther honestly thought the city could have been saved they would have stopped Arthas themselves- they certainly were powerful enough.

Eh, I mean. He was their friend and attacking a Prince is probably a rather grievous offense. Not to mention he had troops with him as well.

Would people side with him in Stratholme, or leave with Jaina and Uther?

While I don’t blame Jaina and Uther for leaving, I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that Arthas did the right thing. We know the plague is basically not able to be cured by any means. And per the instance, at least a sizeable percentage (if not everyone) in the city was infected.

I’m not sure if Chronicle 3 says anything contrary to this idea, especially with the Arthas art having him surrounded by dead ghouls.

Would they help him burn the ships, or stay behind with Muradin?

Now this, I think you would have people leaning more on his side if the character was shown more positively. I wouldn’t agree with it, but per your point, I think you could sway others.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

I don’t associate any of Sylvanas’ evil in BFA with her because it’s such a hamfisted character assassination. For me, all of “Sylvanas” stupid evil is being automatically blamed on the terrible BFA writers, emotionally at least.

The nuBlizz writers got excited about burning Teldrassil for no reason, not Sylvanas. The nuBlizz writers want to desecrate Derek Proudmoore in front of the entire Horde and the new Zandi allies for no reason, not Sylvanas. Etc etc etc.

[Provengreil-senjin (Provengreil)]

Both parties were wrong. Arthas did not take the effort that he could have done to save those of Stratholme that weren’t yet turned, and Jaina and Uther were totally irrresponsible in leaving the scene.

I agree, and in this scenario I would have sided with Arthas - at this point in time they knew basically nothing about the plague, or if it was even curable, and he had entire kingdom to be concerned about - but as he spiraled more and more into villainy, it’d be intriguing to see if people would side with him, perhaps out of spite as well.

On an immediate practical level, he actually made the right choice. Those people were gonna turn, period, and it was faster, safer, and (maybe) more merciful to end them while they were alive. He didn’t know this, of course, but it’s true.

However. He wasn’t a machine, and never considered the emotional damage it might do. His actions in Strath allowed the scourge to take root in his mind long before touching frostmourne, and from that root the lich king grew.

[Trickxie-nesingwary]

That’s precisely what I thought when I read what Verlius said. “Ah, the night elf treatment.”

[Drakeus-wyrmrest-accord]

She is undead bro.

[Bronnix-bleeding-hollow (Bronnix)]

Since when does cruelty need to be justified? In fact Id say most cruelty has no justification at all.

[Etheldald-ragnaros (Etheldald)]

Exactly, you can understand why a character do something but in the end, finding pleasure in torture or in causing damage is insane.

Maybe we can justify the deaths of civilians as colateral damage or that “something that must be done” but i can’t think of anyone in their right mind enjoy it. in fact most people would feel sadness or regret.
Nothing can justify enjoying as your burn childrens alive and much less if it doesn’t show a single sign of regret.
unless you are a psychopath.

[Dotzy-kargath]

unless you are a psychopath.

I feel like Sylvanas is more of a violent sociopath in that she does these things as a military and political leader with strategic goals in mind (yes, yes usually secretive and shady goals, I know) and not just because they’re fun and she gets off on burning babies. People speculate she was a sociopath in life so it makes sense to me that it would carry over into undeath and be amplified in her case.

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

a violent sociopath

https://i.imgur.com/sCCReVB.jpg

[Frankenfiend-the-scryers]

How is it justified?

The alliance are still breathing aren’t they?

That’s really all the justification the Banshee Queen needs.

Beware the Living.

[Sunnysïdeup-stormreaver]

Sylvanas fans are stubborn because they love this character so much, and i get that, there are characters that i love that are long gone that i have still refused to let go. But they refuse to admit that anything that she’s doing is wrong, illogical, or simply just innefective and cruel. Some of me just thinks they refuse to believe that the Sylvanas the know and love has become the corporate abomination we have today. That they have hope that the Sylvanas they love will come back and surprise us later in the expansion. Sylvanas from Cata and current Sylvanas are NOT the same character. Yet once again, i understand where you’re coming from, you don’t want her to go, i get it! I still beleive that some latent Old god power within his body can resserect Garrosh and he can come back into the story no problemo. But i know dam well thats not how storytelling works. How does he come back? Why would people accept him after all hes done? What purpose would he have? These are only some of the questions that would need to be answered to justify his return.

The writers are incompetent because they decided not only to axe off Vol’jin a mere expansion after his arc reached its’ climac and became Warchief, but they yanked Sylvanas out of the blue and made her Warchief for pretty much no reason other than them just wanting her to be an important figure and were just too lazy build her up through the narrative into a more major role in contemporary WC, they just threw away another great character and magically made her the most important Horde figure cuz “da loa mon”. Anyone who actually thinks that this was natural progression for her or made any sense beyond reason clearly does not know how storytelling works. If they wanted to make Sylvanas Warchief, you build her up to that, you hint at it, you dont just put her there and expect people other tham dedicated fans to see that as believeable storytelling, its BS. Garrosh didn’t become Warchief for no reason, there were hints and nods that he was destined for something. Same with Vol’jin, he didn’t just show up after 3 expansions and autimatically became Warchief. He had a whole arc that began in cataclysm. Where in Sylvanas’s arc was she ever hinted at or got any notion that she was being setup to be Warchief? None! Because it was never part of her arc! Her arc was the survival of the Forsaken, that has now been shoved down our throats and forced into the forefront of the entire Horde narrative. It’s all about Forsaken now, everyone else is just there to help the Forsaken get their goal.

Im sorry this turned into a rant, but this story frustrates the hell outta me. Sylvanas was never meant to be Warchief, EVER. Sylvanas could have done the same exact things up to this point and it would have been much better recieved, because the simple difference is that her actions wouldnt have represented the Horde as whole. Burning Teldrassil would have been much better recieved because it would have only been represented as her choice and NOT the Horde as a whole! The blighting at Lordaeron, represented as her alone. Maybe Saurfang still has his doubts, but instead of hiding in a prison cell he voices his doubts Vol’jin, who while he doesnt approves her methods, respects her nonetheless. Literally the entire Horde story would have been so much better if Sylvanas wasn’t Warchief, because now her cruel, ruthless, actions would only be representative of herself rather than the entire Horde as whole.

Do us all a favor and stop posting if you can’t control yourself.