there is and it is lacking
FF is basically a by all means a PvE/RP MMO
Why are you lying? As someone who still plays FF14, this is false. However, I will admit there are times when the queues are almost non-existent, but this was due to the Shadowbringers change of removing undersized PVP and now it waits until the pool has 72 people exactly. The old system would allow 8v8v8, 16v16v16, but now it wonāt start unless itās 24v24v24.
PVP battlegrounds on there are normally 5-7min waits between the times of 12pm EST until around 11pm EST.
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Itās dead, Jim.
but the part of my quote you cut out said āMMOā .
Yes, APEX Legends is my favorite MMOFPS.
not according to wikipedia.
Itās hard to tell from Wikipedia, precisely what is meant by MMO, and whether it applies to APEX Legends precisely or not.
" A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG , or more commonly, MMO ) is an online game with large numbers of players, often hundreds or thousands, on the same server."
According to MMOs.com, āCounter-Strike: Global Offensive is an objective-based MMO tactical shooterā
I suppose the question as to whether instanced content within an MMO is MMO content or not could come into play, but this seems like some silly semantics, and somewhat pedantic wordplay.
Competitive PvP really doesnāt make sense without normalized gear aka templates. All the current system does is encourage boosting which limits accessibility for late comers that want to do things legit. Different ilvl templates should still be possible at different rating levels to change the meta and encourage different tactics in each template bracket. Progressive gear could also be awarded to allow PvP players a chance to branch out to the other game systems but not start off behind.
You are not going to find an MMORPG with pvp as good as WoWs.
but by that definition, starcraft may only support up to 4v4 yet at some point had hundreds of thousands of players logged in. Does that make it an MMORTS?
The actual player vs player itself is terrible, it has no real depth or skill cap like WoW does. They have some cool battlegrounds though, I remember playing one called rival wings that was almost like a MOBA in MMO form. The game mode itself made the PvP fun even though the player vs player interaction itself sucked.
Maybe. Diablo also, may be an MMOARPG.
I suppose Iām not sure what you mean by MMO, esp. when youāre talking in the context of PVP, like Arenas and BGs.
thatās wowās interpretation of PVP. EVEās would be what i call MMO PVP.
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ff14 is basically if wow deleted factions and everyone held hands and sang songs together
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I see. I understand your original statement now. 
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Made me chuckle.
I rate FF BGs (I only tried them for a couple weeks) perhaps the worst ever.
RIFT BGs were superior for a long long while. Itās still around I donāt know how active.
DAOC RvR and BGs still are the very best in my gaming experience but that place is very very dead.
Well yeah, EVE is legit PvP as they come. The āBGā can be right outside CONCORD space or even Jita though lol Ah the storiesā¦
Edit: Fantasy MMO BGs are in a weird, bad spot.
Do people really play WoW BGs as a āsceneā though? Its been all about farming marks, honor etc for gear for as long as I can remember.
I suppose that by just tossing out the word āsceneā I failed to be thoroughly descriptive, my bad. With a family and multiple jobs, Iām only ever a casual these days, so my info is either incomplete or old, but with that asideā¦
ā¦I remember playing BGs primarily because they were fun.
I remember my motivation for queueing up for a BG being based on whatever play mechanic I wanted to fiddle with and get laughs from; whether it was knocking ppl off cliffs in eots, CC chaining backline healers with my rogue, spreading endless dots (and self healing) on my warlock, summoning a doomguard (long time ago) to wreak havoc on AV bottlenecks or using my Sky-mirror toy to queue up as an enormous stealth magnataur.
Gear sort of just happened as a consequence, because I was having that much fun. And, it seemed like others were too.
I guess that is what I am looking for. A lot of the pieces are in placeāwe have a classic tbc now. But, we have a gaming culture that seems a little off for the kind of fun pvp I want. Ppl are queueing to get gear more than to enjoy the momentā¦often they do so on a bot or just afk. Additionally, honor takes way too long to grind, and ppl start out salty before they even begin, because they know it will take hundreds of game to stop being cannon fodderā¦add to that the dismaying situation of hordies needing to wait forever, just to participate.
Soā¦right now the classic wow pvp scene it largely a swing and a miss for me. That is excluding wpvp of course, which is still pretty fun right now.
I just wish there was a place I could go to relive the oldschool bg vibe I used to love, where ppl were relaxed and just enjoying the matches for the gameās sake.
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Like others have said, FFXIV PvP is trash-tier. The PvE isnt that great either - the entire game engine feels clunky. Iād honestly rather play Shadowlands than FFXIV.
Lol damn. The responses seem to mostly agree with you here.