Does the stats translate directly over ALA Classic/vanilla? Are there mitigating factors softening the impact of gear? Or are stats normalized within a PvP environment between players?
And if there are mitigating effects, how big is the difference still?
How much more dmg will a ilev 440 character do compared to a ilev 400 character? 10%? 20%? 30%? Or more?
Sorry if I am asking obvious questions here; I just haven’t been able to find a good guide that explains the impact and different factors on gear in detail, and what information often features contradictions.
So what exactly are you doing on that Warrior of yours. You made this thread 11 days ago and the 2nd week of CP gear would be an upgrade for you. So 11 days and not even twice capped? I just started mainly today on my Druid and I’m 180 CP away from the head piece (2nd week of rewards)
Assuming he won all epic battle grounds for the maximum amount of conquest (65 a win for the daily i think?) only puts him at 390 total conquest. Not even enough to cap once.
Well a new character will get 150 for an AV win. 100 for WG quest. Brawl quest cp for 65. Assaults between queues worth 60 cp, chests for 50. Chests for 75 in Nazjatar
Hes doing nothing but random battlegrounds, no chests, no assaults. So if you want you can add in the possibility of AV and WG quests for a total of 640 then.
Thats the point of the experiment, gearing completely through random battlegrounds.
OP - Yes gear matters, there is supposed to be some kind of scaling in game but no one knows the exact details of how it works. If you go into a random battleground fresh 120 with 80k health youre going to die fast. Pvp rewards and gearing are less plentiful then Pve. If you want to gear quickly Pve is the way to go.
Ive gotten as far as i have by capping conquest weekly, doing weekly world quests and assults inbetween queues. Its not that hard to get 415ish ilvl which is enough to not get blown up in 2 seconds and enjoy running battle grounds.
From my experience through several characters and specs, it has become apparent that a small difference of even 20 ilvl’s can result in a world of difference in PVP. A person with a 20 ilvl advantage being the same class, spec and virtually the same traits and talents can significantly outperform the lower level. Using final HP and damage output and HP mitigation my encounters vary from seeing anywhere from a 40% - 80% discrepancy in remaining HP and between 30% - 50% in damage output increases. The balance between the two usually a result of increased HP mitigation factors. Other factors that will contribute is the degree of skill level differentiation.
The final result:
Currently to be competitive even in randoms you’re looking at at least a 415-420 ilvl. I’m seeing more and more 430+ ilvl’s in randoms now who are decimating people who are within 15-25 ilvl’s lower.
Scaling - the range where i saw any effective results from scaling was between 340-380. This in know way balanced the result and gave you a fighting chance, it just permitted you to live a second or two longer lol…Below or above and it seems like scaling is completely non-existent.
Historically Blizz has favored PVE over PVP despite a few short lived stints, however, currently more than ever it is evident that they are compelling the player base to embrace PVE like it or not. Therefore, it you want to compete presently, you will want to find a way to run Mythic+'s and target at least 430 ilvl. Is it right? absolutely not. But at this juncture in time, this is what we are faced with. You can also go the road of what seems to be quite the enterprise and probably another element driving the PVE agenda is “Paid” carries in Mythics. I laughed pretty hard at how many of these groups were in group finder and how quickly they turned over. So although many people have genuinely earned their gear, i’ll bet a huge number of people are being carried just so they can walk into randoms and wreck the joint lol.
I’m ilvl 423 on my frost dk and top’ing damage in pretty much every bg I’m in (and when I’m not top, I’m close). And there are plenty of 440+ I’m up against (or with).
Well, my experience is with rogues, warriors, Feral Druid. There are more resilient classes, but overall damage isn’t necessarily the deciding factor. It’s how well one performs against the same class, spec etc in 1v1 situations. So you are 423 frost, how well do you perform against another Frost DK in a 1v1 situation who is 20 ilvl’s above you…If you are playing someone who is relatively equally skilled, how well will you fair? This is the true measurement, and what i’m basing my comment on. Playing against other classes, there are many variables to consider making encounters vary drastically, thus making it hard to gauge to what degree the ilvl influenced the outcome.
lol gear matters a ton. The scaling from ilvl this patch is literally the jankiest ive ever seen it in all my years, plus azerite essences, op traits, rep grind gated op items. you can stomp random bgs at a subpar ilvl if you have a decent team or something, but most of the time unless youre completely outplaying the other person with a sizeable ilvl advantage youre dead.
I was trying to gear up this toon like 2 weeks ago through conquest by spamming arena like ive done for a decade, and was getting dumpstered at 408 ilvl. You can win, but its tough when that 435 rogue catches you in a kidney with no trinket and he destroys your entire health pool in 3 globals and cyclo blast is actually half your hp
I caved and did mythics, now im 428 ilvl and it evened out A LOT more. 20 ilvls plus essence slots, base % stam from neck, essence rank differences feels like an entire xpac worth of raid tiers if not worse
Gear matters. Always has always will. Legion was the closest from top to bottom for gear mattering the least and arena addicts complained the loudest about not having that disparity.
If you think gear didn’t matter in vanilla even, you have no idea what it was like being shotted by full raid tier mages. Jump through the hoops, get the gear, crush people. I remember how hard i would have to outplay someone with full merciless or brutal when I didn’t have it back in the day. The game still works the same way.
trying to use “but vanilla, gear has always mattered!” as an excuse to hand wave away the issues with PvP gearing today is legitimately hilarious. the game absolutely does NOT work the same way lmfaoooooo
remember how they added pvp gear that was on-par if not better than raid gear during vanilla?
remember how they then decided to give pvpers their own gear that was better for the content they did for the next 10+ years after, that was a reward from that same content? There was stupid stuff like legendaries and OP PvE trinkets sure, but for the most part the gear you needed to PvP was actually a reward from PvP! If you remember everyone and their dog running around with glaives and shadowmourne the same way people have cyclotronic blast and R3 essences and a 65 HoA today, then you played a different game. And when full raid geared people stepped into PvP, they’d literally get deleted in two seconds because we had resilience, or pvp power, or PvP gear scaling up in ilvl to be better in PvP content.
trying to compare being a season or two behind in BC to the power difference and gearing path of today is actually absurd. Those full Vengeful rogues with their mace specs? They were OP in PvP because they PvPed…and it didn’t take long to get last season’s gear to catch up, and then you would be on an even playing field if you PvPed enough. One season difference in BC was not even remotely comparable to today as far as power level goes too, sorry boss.
the issue now isn’t that “Oh, I don’t want to have to gear up to do well in PvP” and that’s the strawman people immediately attack. The issue is you CANT get the same power level as the dragonslayers at all through PvP, especially now that we’re into the season a little bit. like you actually just can’t. and it’s not even just item level. You get pretty much no azerite as a reward from arena so you’re gimped on stamina and minor essences, and most of the BiS essences are rewards from unnecessarily long PvE grinds (Nazjatar rep, your Nazjatar daily follower bs, spamming Mechagon over and over and over again…)
It feels more like being dumped into Season 4 of BC and only being able to buy the blue rep PvP gear/Season 1 gear with your honor/arena points, while 80% of the ladder has Sunwell tier BoJ PvE welfare epics and patch 3.0 talents (Mythic+ gear, R3 essences, high level HoA) and resilience doesn’t exist so your “PvP gear” is just bad gear for all situations
like dude just go look at the arena ladder. I have never seen that much PvE gear in my ENTIRE LIFE. You think these R1 glads want to spend their time farming Waycrest 10 for their gear instead of playing arena? lol
Game has changed like you said. People complained about templates that were mostly arena players because their skill supposedly didn’t earn them a measurable feel of gear discrepancy. Really shouldn’t you be outskilling pve heros hero’s
Frankly the bulk of the people playing the game arent R1 glads and nobody but R1 glads likes a club gating titles or rewards which started the downfall of arena almost immediately after its conception.
What you don’t like most is you can’t gate the best gear behind a club of less than 1% of the games population.
I don’t have a dog in this fight because I dont do M+ or rated anything anymore. I personally dont care that less than 1% of the overall game subscribers can’t get the best gear, stream and make money, and not play the rest of the game.
When elite M+ gating happens, which i can see it happening already, the pendulum will swing back the other way and people will want entrance into pvp and getting that gear again. Which in 9.0 I suspect there will be pvp vendors again so you can sit in a city or garrison and spam que arena, until you come out to buy your vaunted “shoulders” that show you are “leet” again.
TLDR; play the whole game, its an mmorpg not call of duty. At least you don’t need attunements to get said pve gear.
This is 100% NOT the reason people were complaining about templates but you say it like its a fact
This is just…a bad take and also objectively wrong. Yeah of course the majority of people playing the game aren’t R1, I’m just Duelist scum myself. You realize “Club gating titles or rewards” for the best players is like…kind of the point of WoW and something that is the core design philosophy of literally all of the core content in this game from 2004 until now?
The only thing that higher rated players got after they removed the rating requirements for specific pieces of PvP gear was better weapons, which was also removed. The only difference between a 2.4k player and a 1600 player in terms of base character power was their cosmetics and titles. Their gear was literally exactly the same.
“Downfall of arena almost immediately”? This is not a thing that happened. Idk what world you live in that 3 full expansions of increasing participation followed by a massive drop after poor design decisions is an “almost immediate” downfall because of rating-locked titles and rewards. You realize instanced PvP participation didn’t peak until like, MoP right?
This hasn’t happened for damn near a decade in PvP (and it wasn’t as low as 1% btw) and no one is asking for this, you’re pulling garbage out of thin air. WAY more than 1% of the population had full sets of PvP gear (the same gear as the filthy top 1% rated players, even) because you could, y’know, do BGs and then arenas/rbgs to get the gear regardless of your skill level if you did the content? Capping at 1100 MMR and capping at 2400 MMR was still capping…
The best gear in the game right now is gated behind less than 1% of the games population, it’s called Mythic raids. Why isn’t that an issue for you but PvPers getting titles is?
Dude it was never “the best gear”, it was “the best gear for PvP”. O and also, PvPers are WAY more than 1% of the games population. Like way more. Less than 1% of the overall game subscribers have the best gear right now from just raiding. One form of content. The best gear in all situations. The best gear for all situations has NEVER been attainable strictly through PvP. You sound awfully specific (what did streamers do to you?) and opinionated for someone that has “no dog in the fight.” If you don’t do the content, why do the rewards we get matter like…literally at all to you? Because you don’t want to/can’t get it so we shouldn’t be allowed to have it either?
ya nah, PvE players threw an entire hissy fit when they had to win 2 WHOLE BGs in MoP for their legendary cape. Gear from arena was super common at the beginning of BFA and Blizz shut that down real quick because the raiders didn’t like that gearing through PvP was so efficient, lol. They’ll give us back Badges before they ever make PvP the best way to gear for PvE.
God forbid we get PvP vendors so we can you know…get gear that is viable for the content that we’re doing? You sound like you’re personally offended by PvPers even wanting rewards at all, it’s unreal
Yeah, sure, sounds great. With no M+ and no rated PvP, you’d be perfectly set with only dungeon blues. You’re not doing all the content, why should you get epic Gladiator gear? I’ve also got a great idea for a new feature coming up for 9.0: Relevant PvE gear only available from 2k+ arenas! Have fun raiding in gear 30 ilvls under the current tier until you get 2k in 3s and farm for gear, cause play the whole game amirite?
Gear matters in the sense of getting all your azerite traits. For the most part, damage scales in PvP. If you have 120k HP and I have 285k gp, I’ll hit an 85k eviscerate on you but on your screen it will show up as a 50k or something.