Having seen the trailer for the next expansion “The War Within”, I would’ve liked to see HOW Anduin’s crisis of faith developed instead of hearing about it after the fact.
After Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard often changes anything or anyone and anyone Light-related on a whim without showing the development. Since the changes make no sense, they don’t show the progression because there is no logical progression and instead just say “this is how they are now, accept it, sheeple.”
In the cinematic trailer, Anduin angrily declares to Thrall that “he has no Light.” It reminds me of how Thrall’s shamanic powers declined after WoD because either he cheated to use them on Garrosh or he lost faith in himself - which is likely why it was Thrall in the cinematic with Anduin.
Except there is no reason for Anduin’s crisis of faith.
He mentions visions? All we see is a vision of Azeroth herself calling out to him and others.
He talks about his past actions? He was literally mind-controlled or possessed by the Jailer then after his capture, so those actions weren’t his.
Absence of Light? He was able to make limited use of the Light while the Jailer possessed him and it played a role in him breaking free of the Jailer’s hold (remember “The Light is with me, even here”? He had faith strong enough to call down enough Light into Warcraft’s hell to stop the Jailer himself).
Am I missing something here?
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I think it’s pretty obvious that he’s talking about the whole “being a psuedo-Death Knight for a little while” thing. Whether or not it was his choice is less relevant than the basic fact that he had an evil god living in his head and making him do things. That’s going to be traumatic no matter what.
Honestly, though: I struggled to recall this because I had literally forgotten that that had even happened. I had completely blocked it out, because it was one of the dumbest parts of Shadowlands. I desperately hope whichever writer suggested “What if we do Arthas again, but way worse!?” has left the company.
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Yeah, I feel you. If I had to guess I would say it is because Anduin has always been very empathetic. Even after the traumatic experience (domination magic seems to reach your soul), he still feels responsible because that is who he is. It doesn’t seem like he questions why the Light let him use his abilities while mind-controlled (Not that Id want that arc either)
I think the real answer is they want to go with the broken man/hero trope that is popular.
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Him being able to use the Light was a struggle from the inside. Light was working with Anduin to free him from the Jailer’s grasp (such as when he dropped that compass after the Jailer destroyed the replacement Arbiter).
You might be right about the writers just wanting to hit that broken man/hero trope.
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I honestly feel like there is nothing they can do with Anduin that people would enjoy, but this PTSD angle was probably one of the worst they could have gone with. When it comes to portraying real psychological trauma… Blizzard doesn’t exactly have a great track record. When it comes to the psychology of characters, they often go at it with a light touch, a dusting of the brush, if you will.
This though? This was heavy handed, and we just don’t know enough to justify it.
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Shadowlands is kind of a blur. Did they elaborate on him wielding the light as pseudo-dk? I feel like I didn’t see him use the Light that often.
He does not believe he deserves the Light anymore. He was awake and aware the entire time his ordeal with Domination magic was happening, just unable to stop himself from doing horrific things. That would screw most people up, I’d think. He might not of pulled the trigger, but his hand held the metaphorical gun; on top of that he mentions in Shadowlands he isn’t sure where his feelings and desires ended and Zovaals began. He thinks he might of actually enjoyed killing and that horrified him. He came away from the experience unsure sure who he even was anymore, and deeply traumatized with some clear PTSD.
In short, the light responds to conviction and Anduin has lost his will to wield it. To him it must seem like the light abandoned him and in turn he turned away from it as he is clearly unworthy.
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I remember him using the Light a couple of times. It was how he imbued the compass with a vision of himself and Sylvanas after the Sanctum of Domination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZiLrFyxZ7U&ab_channel=Athelarius (starts at 15:08)
He uses Light abilities in his boss fight Zereth Mortis, and it plays a role in him breaking free of the Jailer.
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Maybe this cinematic?
While I agree that it would have been better shown on screen, I think Anduin’s issue is that he’s lost in who he taught he was, and who he was “supposed” to be.
He’s King Varian’s son, student of Bolvar Fordragon. It’s an interesting story of being a Warrior/Paladin vs being a Priest, only to fall down that rabbit hole of being a Shadow Priest.
It just falls short, imo, when considering the surrounding characters of Velen, Alleria, and Turaylon. (Which is becoming a repeated statement. >.>)
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Ty! It is coming back to me now. At least the Light appeared to aid Anduin in SL. I still cant figure out the Uther situation though.
My general view is that the writing team has shuffled around somewhat, especially with Metzen now more involved, and they’re trying to work with what they have and also with what they don’t have. Shadowlands and BfA both had a lot of things clearly cut, we saw this with how other ‘pieces’ of the story acted. There were plot points written as sequels to other plot points that were never put in.
My guess is that this is one of them. Anduin likely had a lot more content in BfA and Shadowlands dealing with his struggle of being a wartime king at a young age, then the Void messing with his mind, and then the domination magic. But with the seemingly major rewrites Shadowlands got, and a lot of the BfA stuff cut, we now get something that seems out of nowhere.
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tbf that was done before Anduin with Garrosh. hell Garrosh makes that comparison about himself in War Crimes.
Although I would not call it worse. On par I would say. I do like the twist that while Ner’zhul needed to push Arthas towards Frostmourne as a false “Hail Mary”, Y’shaarj did not need to do that with Garrosh when it comes to Xal’atoh.
Thanks. That does explain a few things. I still wonder why would he feel “exhilarated”? iirc the only people he attacked while controlled by the Jailer are the Archon, the Primus, some Kyrians and fey, Jaina, Uther, Sylvanas and our PCs. And none of them were killed. I can see what the writers are trying to do, but I don’t see the reason he should feel any exhilaration about attacking whatever he thinks of himself.
On that note, why didn’t he seek out Velen, Turalyon or Alleria for advice? He could’ve also asked Uther, who was a paladin and faced a similar situation given the Forsworn. Or did anyone tell Anduin about Z’rali? There’s literally a Naaru chilling in Revendreth if he wants advice from as close to the source as he can be for Light.
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That’s just how domination magic was framed in Shadowlands. I guess the best analogy would be “in-universe mental retconning”. It’s not supposed to matter if Anduin would ever have a reason for feeling what he did; Zovaal told him to love it, and so he loved it, and his memory of that doesn’t go away just because control was broken later. Only a forsaken character conscious during their time as scourge could ever relate to that.
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Or a Death Knight.
Think it would help him to know those feelings came from Zovaal messing with his head (and soul)?
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Fair, forgot about death knights but they’re functionally the same in that regard, yeah.
He already knows the feelings came from Zovaal (Sylvanas and him had talks about this) but there’s not going to be some mental dividing line that would let him separate “these feelings came from someone else” versus “I felt this”.
I think that’s how this often became metaphors for abuse / trauma, like how someone’s brain can be permanently altered with a bad enough event in their life. In-universe, Anduin needs tons of therapy, and can heal to a certain degree, but he can never go back to the pre-damaged state he was before.
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I am not looking forward to another poor attempt at a story involving abuse. The writing team has shown numerous times they can’t do it, the idea that they will do any better when it’s their pet character this time is flawed.
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Isn’t it a new writing team apart from Metzen?
