How do you want Tinkers designed?

If Aug is anything to go by, and its effect on the game, it’ll lead to where all other mmos end up: homogenization.

The concept of support works in specific game types that have limited inputs i. e. HotS, League, etc. when a characters interaction and gameplay is limited by the number of inputs a player can use. In such a design space a support can exist, because you don’t have the ability to give other characters the one or two utility buttons they would need to round out their kit. It also works there because by having such a limited toolkit enforcing hyper focused design it allows developers to put more characters overall in the game to sell appearances and such for.

In games with more complexity capability, the concept of support is an archaic design pattern. If a support is just a dps/healer with one or two more utility abilities then others then how are they truly distinct from a healer/dps/tank? All that utility is pointless if you don’t use it, and if everybody is using their kit like they should then theres no chance to use it more then a standard tank/dps/healer so again, useless.

If a support is a tank/dps/healer that buffs their party, then thats when the real trouble for homogenization occurs. How do you ensure buffing helps everyone the same? How do you make one class buff as good as another without duplicating playstyle? What should you buff? Classes don’t scale off the same things the same way, so who should benefit from what? We’ve already seen how that can affect the game somewhat (fire mage, warlock, unholy dk, shadow priest). On top of that, buffing playstyles are parasitic on other playstyles. If something CAN be helped from buffing, then it MUST be balanced that it COULD be buffed. In order for buffing to exist, all other playstyles must be consumed under the banner that they could be buffed.

The favorite example is “look at bard in FF14, that works out!” But bard has been nerfed to heck and back (all support gameplay has) so other classes don’t need supports to function. Most buffing is in the 1-2% range, with 5% effects occurring very irregularly or under very specific circumstances. They’re still dealing with homogenization repercussions that started with support gameplay. The gameplay is tight but its incredibly predictable. Don’t get me wrong, love FF14, already preordered Dawntrail. But if WoW is just gonna play like FF14 then I’m just gonna play FF14.

I play WoW for the fantasy, for the gameplay. I like being classes that keep their theme but dip their toes into other aspects. If I’m dps and all I’m expected to do is do dps without kicking, or knockbacks, or silences, or anything at all I’m gonna get so bored so fast. Which is what I’m worried about supports getting added. The more supports there are, the more defined the gameplay must be. Outside of ‘buffing’ what does that mean? Utility. More and more utility getting pulled out of classes and specs to get parasitically consumed by support specs to justify their existence. Have already kinda seen this - Augs utility came outta requests people had for things to add to Dev and Pres. Now they don’t get it cause Aug needs a reason to exist.

In summary: I don’t like the design intention the game would go into to justify adding and continuing to have supports. Is just my thoughts on it.

Simple: Base the specs on Overwatch characters.

Tanking spec like D.Va
Healing spec like Anna
DPS spec like Torbjorn

Give them Guns and Mail and they can be the first Mail tank in the game (unless they let Shaman do it!).

1 Like

If I can push yet another game towards the MechWarrior singularity, I will.

1 Like

In a wow context I think it has a place for lower ilvl players to contribute and work with higher ilvl players “ok I simply don’t have the throughput to contribute, so I will buff the pumpers to pump more, debuff/control the mobs and help the group survive or do the extra things - an extended version of how dps warriors used to help apply sunder armour for quicker melee”.

You cant but thats where the fantasy gets improved when you have those synergies… looking back on ~20 years of wow I still remember shadow priest + shadowbolt warlocks of TBC as a high point where that kind of synergy thrived. I think balance has led to things being monogenized now… I dont like how clinical raid gameplay is… purely measured by throughput. MOP Remix has shown… its fun just dominating things.

Again you dont, I think thats what we have now is duplicate playstyles and restrictive design… cant have anything fun or unique because balance needs to be tight.

Fun, design by whats fun not by whats numerically even. Wow has fallen into this trap… it serves the high end 1% at the expense of the 99% that just want to have fun.

Thats why I used to play wow. The fantasy, the setting, the story. Blizzard destroyed that with BFA “the horde are nothing” and really haven’t won me back with TWW (no horde story in the xpac marketing at all).
As for the gameplay, MOP REMIX has been more fun than I have had since Horrific Visions. I actually like simpler classes/specs with fewer buttons. Guardrian druid probably my favourite tank right now or Fury warrior as dps. Button bloat is real.

Yeah, I think I am just too old for what wow is now. I want wow to change a lot quickly from what it currently is. If they throw up more REMIX patches Ill play those otherwise Main wow is over for me I think (I haven’t bought TWW and likely wont till much much later in xpac if at all).

I hope the ranged spec wouldn’t be support. I want something focused on guns and artillery.

Just picturing the animation for the draenei hearthstone being used to summon in one of the draenei ballistas from WoD as a major cooldown would great.

And yet as it currently stands, the only ones who can contribute with it in a meaningful way are high ilvl, high key players. With many many WAs to calculate what exactly to use when.

Nor I but synergies are complex and difficult to account for. But is also why I like everybody having utility rather then just a subset - coordinating kicks and silences to help the team.

Agreed, which is why what and how you buff is important. Ignoring damage, isn’t it fun to get priest PI with all that haste letting you click a bunch of buttons super fast? If mastery gets buffed as a DH you can gain speed from more mastery. Its fun to go zoom zoom.

I don’t miss the vendor or the cost to get in but yeah, horrific visions were pretty sweet. But I would disagree on simpler classes. If I’m looking for simple gameplay I got plenty of games to choose from, I like getting more complicated gameplay (to an extent) out of WoW. But that comes down to taste.

I wonder about this too. Like I said, I don’t like support’s effect on the game, but if thats what the next generation wants then maybe WoWs just not for me anymore. If SoD is any indicator, kinda hoping in a couple seasons a Classic+ design intention gets solidified. Presuming all lessons learned and taken to heart. Can fall back on that then.

Tinker.
Class resource: spare parts. Spare parts can come in 3 varieties: cogs, bolts, and power cells. They recharge over time, but specific abilities will also generate them.

They would have 3 specializations:

  1. Medi-tech (healing)
  • Description: debilitate enemies and empower allies with totally safe ray guys (enlarging ray, shrink ray, etc). deploy bots that (mostly!) do your bidding to damage foes and heal allies (you get to deploy literal heal bots). uses 1 handed weapon & mecha-shield (they can ‘enchant’ their shield with a unique augmentation, similar to how death knights have runeforging)
  1. Mecha-tech (tanking)
  • Description: deploy target dummies to distract enemies and protect allies. Talent choices allow you to make your target dummies better, while others customize your mech. Because yes, you can pilot a mech. Several choice talents to customize the mech in different ways. Calling down your mech is your big 3 minute cooldown. Uses 1 handed weapon & mecha-shield (they can ‘enchant’ their shield with a unique augmentation, similar to how death knights have runeforging). Some abilities create damage shields on self and allies, while others will do damage and reduce the cooldown of your mech.
  1. Blast-tech (dps)
  • Description: I don’t know what the problem is, but the solution is clearly more explosions. Can equip a 2 handed ranged weapon (bow/gun/crossbow) but talents can customize your ‘tinkers backpack’ which is sort of like a backpack with arms (think doc oc from spiderman or the smart kid from Goonies?). You can combine parts with your backpack resource to deploy different kinds of turrets, shoot a grappling hook, charge and then fire a giant laser beam weapon, or release the exploding mecha-chickens.

example class talent: recycling: whenever a bot, target dummy, or turret dies or explodes, you are refunded a random spare part

1 Like