For now, it seems as if Sylvanas is the Sole Bad guy.
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Except outside Lordaeron and just about every loyalist quest you did.
Definitely had the Horde in Cataclysm when she attacked Gilneas under Garrosh’s order to do so.
She took Howling Fjord herself against the Lich King, made life hell for the Alliance while she stayed there.
It has everything to do with being undermined and betrayed. Saurfang pulled the first punch when he didn’t kill Malfurion, and then afterward when he defected.
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Nah.
Also nah. She had a vision when she became an hero of what Garrosh would do with her meat shields if she didn’t acquiesce.
Personal revenge has nothing to do with the Horde.
Nah.
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Because he would’ve lost. As we now have pretty definitive evidence for. And dying at Lordaeron, with the army shattered and in retreat and with almost no one around to witness it? Pretty pointless.
Now, dying while also being able to get Sylvie to break her facade in front of literally everyone who needed to see it? Yeah, thats a much better time to bet everything on green.
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Depends on when she got super charged.
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What a cool intro.
I’d contend it still didnt matter. Thrall and Anduin were both pretty convinced Saurfang was going to lose. And that was before she pulled out any of her purple tricks, assuming the daggers werent just regularly enchanted poisoned. We did see some flashy effects coming from the daggers in Safe Haven after all.
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Yeah.
Oh, so you’re saying she cared about the Forsaken? Weird. It’s like they’re Horde.
Except that her personal revenge also aided the Horde.
See: Saurfang and literally every other racial leader.
Denial doesn’t work as an argument.
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He rose up to his feet and forced her onto the defensive before he got one shot. We will never know how the fight would turn out without that.
In the sense that one cares about a tool until that tool can no longer serve it’s purpose. She never cared about them as living things. She openly tells the loyalist that the Forsaken have stubbornly clung to hope and life, meaning she wishes to deny them those things.
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She admits she cares about her forsaken.
As meatshields that she only intends to die for her. She says that during Cataclysm.
You mean the guys who were helping her until she mass murdered, mass damned, and mass enslaved the Horde, while willfully showing the Forsaken that the cornerstone of their entire culture doesn’t apply to her and their free will is not guaranteed?
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TFW Darksiders made the physical embodiment of Death more of a multifaceted character with sympathetic qualities than WoW did.
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So you’re saying she cares? Weird.
Oh, you mean those same people who are just as guilty as her in participating in said events?
Pretty sure their free will is guaranteed unless your name is Derek.
Weird how you cherry pick one example there.
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If she becomes the bad guy it better be a whole new concept very well written. I will be sad if she just becomes another remake of Arthas cause that would absolutely suk.
Personally I just hope she is going through a “Jaina hates Horde” phase but translated to “Sylv hates life”. And see a new character arc story.
At the minimum I would set for her becoming a Dead’s neutral character like Illidan is.
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If they’re going for Arthas parallels, just have her eventually become the Lich Queen. Not like Blovar’s really been doing much, Sylvanas is still a way more popular character, and it would allow her to continue being that one person that nobody trusts, but you keep her around for practical reasons as sometimes your goals align.
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You just nailed why I am feeling so sour this expansion. I play Nelf and (not always but do) Forsaken. Always liked the opposite themes between them. This expansion moved /killed many pieces for both and yet achieved nothing for it.
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No. Bolvar is awesome.
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I actually really dig the self-satisfied narcissist nihilist she acted out in the cinematic…the total edgelord who wallows in how she recognizes how petty and meaningless life is, and how this makes her superior.
I no longer want her to develop any depth. I just want to see how sharp they can make her edges before they finally feed her to the blood god or whatever.
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Pretty thoroughly disappointed. It’s not even interesting villainry, just the cheap tropey stuff you’d find in an 80s cartoon. It’s also saddening to see how many ostensibly Horde players have cheered the thorough weakening of the faction. No matter how much you justify yourself by saying Sylvanas dragged things down (which is not untrue) there’s really no other way to slice things other than the Horde is damn near thoroughly broken at this point and exists only by the grace of a spineless Anduin.
Enjoy your gloating, I suppose.
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Oh, I am. 
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I can respect this position.
Not sure about that.
Anduin and Saurfang weren’t sure of victory against Sylvanas; that means that Sylvanas’ loyalist forces were at least of equal strength to the combined might of Saurfang’s Horde rebels and the Alliance.
So with the Horde all back on the same side, I would assume they’re stronger than the Alliance right now. Heroes notwithstanding, of course.
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