How do I do more dps as prot?

Classes Warrior
1

When raiding, I noticed that a lot of the time the other tank will have a crazy high amount of dps compared to me. I’m i270 and even if the other tanks are a little bit higher, the relative increase in their dps can sometimes be 2-3x mine, to the point where I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong or if it’s just the spec. On top of that, I also feel a lot more squishy compared to them.

For single target, my understanding is that we should:

  • Keep up shield block near 100% of the time we’re taking any physical damage
  • Keep up ignore pain
  • Prioritize shield slam, then revenge, then thunderclap
  • Time avatar & conq banner together with trinkets
  • Use reprisal when it’s up

Am I missing something?

2

I am slightly newer to prot warrior, but feel i’ve got a fairly good grasp. I’m assuming you’re talking about a boss because you mention single target.

My thoughts: Shield block uptime is important, but if it’s going to drop while your enemy is casting THAT IS OK. Ignore pain uptime is important, but if it’s going to drop while the boss is doing a group mechanic THAT IS OK.

I prioritize Shield Slam first, always, then if Thunder Clap won’t overcap rage, I will press that, then Revenge. My goal is to keep my rage generators always on CD if they won’t overcap me.

CD’s
I will press Avatar on CD, provided the pack will last the entire duration. Holding Avatar is pretty much never OK due to Anger Management. After Avatar you should always spend your Outburst on Shield Slam, unless it’s your first few CD’s and you’re grouping mobs, then TC is ok… I always try to Demo Shout after Avatar to maximize the dmg multipliers.

Banner Lasts so long, that you will, so long as you play moderately efficiently guarantee at least 1, maybe even 2 Avatar/Demo Shout Windows in your banner. Because of this I will NEVER hold Conq Banner. I am playing this leggo to buff my group, not for my damage.

I think that perhaps moving TC above revenge in the APL if you won’t cap might make a pretty significant difference for you because you will generate more overall rage over the course of your banner and increase it’s uptime.

TL;DR, more mastery for your group, more better. Generators>Spenders if you won’t cap. CD Sync important, but never hold Avatar.

If i’m way off base anywhere, I’d love to here any modifications. I’ve been running prot for about a week, but played various tanks for 2 xpacks now.

3

Are you uh, using Ironfoe during this example? It’s not a massive DPS loss because we’re AP based now but it’s certainly alot less DPS, I’d expect like 500 less on shield slams or something as an example.

Besides that it depends on what class the other tank is, what legendaries the both of you are using and what trinkets you’re both using, for all I know in this example the other tank could be built for threat with DPS trinkets and legendaries.

4

Did you even look at his name? He cannot use any other weapon, you uncivilized swine.

5

I saw his name and what weapon he has equipped you hairy beast.

He’s free to use it if he wants to, his #1job is staying alive and holding threat over DPS which he probably do even with Ironfoe but he will sadly fall behind the other tanks on DPS and by extension, threat.

I have Thunderfury, Ironfoe and Sulfuras in my bags too but I always understand that the cool factor of a real Thunderfury being wielded comes at a price.

6

Of course I am, would be blasphemy to not!

The difference in absolute damage is 250 on shield slam, so it’s fairly negligible and even overall dps is maybe 500-1k less compared to a higher ilvl weapon. The big differences I’m thinking of are when I have ~5-6k dps and another take has 10k - maybe that is just from some big AoE pack. However, I have noticed that having different trinkets equipped can make a big difference. Rather than only defensive trinkets, if I used HotS and the jailer one my dps jumps up a good amount.

7

This is a big thing to think about, in the past when a tank would hit his defense cap he would then start to think about where he could shave off unneeded defense for more damage and threat.

We also have to consider that you’re a warrior and are going to lack real aoe damage without spending all rage on revenge which costs you ignore pain which of course isn’t always possible where as prot paladin doesn’t usually have to make such a choice unless he gets low on health. So sadly other tanks are a little more faceroll by design currently and you may struggle to keep up on damage in multi target situations.

Honestly just fiddle with your set as best you can and fine tune it to your liking, don’t worry if a protection paladin or blood DK is higher on DPS some things we can’t quite change, although we should see protection warriors to be in a somewhat better state next expansion.

8

Weapon damage has a huge factor in ability damage.

9

It really isn’t. It’s just the total Str + the weapon damage. That’s it. Yes when it’s multiplied it will add up, but our damage mechanic in WoW has been so dumbed down by devs that you just add those numbers and that’s it.

10

I don’t see why weapon damage has an effect on SL our abilities seem to scale purely off of attack power rather than weapon damage and attack power.

So his shield slam or revenge would be weaker because Ironfoe has only a few points of strength not because it’s a low DPS weapon.

Weapon DPS does still effect auto attacks of course.

11

It’s a hidden modifier. The same for Prot Pally as well. That is why for Twinks the Cudgel of Naralex is BiS because it is a one hand weapon with 3.6 weapon speed. Last in the game from a Cata quest using Chromie time. This weapon increases your Shield Slam and all abilities by a large margin for Twinks. So they do this Quest over and Over hoping for a Epic proc.

With that said this is why actual Weapon damage will be the largest Dps increase and Weapon Ilvl > stats. Since not just damage but Ignore pain etc.

12

Interesting if this is true that a 3.60 is adding more damage to abilities than just auto attacks, I assume this is tested in game or did someone find the formula for it somewhere?

13

I think you need to check that again, bubba. There is no hidden modifier. It’s Str + the weapon value. Our abilities then deal X% of that value, where X varies by each ability

14

I don’t know what the formula is currently I’d have to dig around. I’ve known this since BFA though. Weapon damage increases all ability healing/damage. Also I have several Twinks and tested Cudgel of Naralex and it increases everything. Since abilities are first based on weapon damage then following modifiers.

I have a lower item level cudgel than a Blue weapon on my Twink Prot Pally and his damage is more with cudgel due to weapon speed = higher damage value. Which increases his WoG healing etc… So it’s the desired weapon in Twink SL PvP.

I’ve mained Prot for 16 years and have Prot Twinks too cause SL max level bores me sometimes. One good thing about Twinks is the XPoff forums you really get into Min/Maxing and learn even more about mechanics/dmg.

Weapon value is weapon damage. If you have a high damage weapon all your abilities will hit harder and ignore pain will absorb more. Swap out your weapon and watch your abilities go way up. Tclap etc…

So your weapon is most definitely holding you back if you are using Iron foe that is a massive Dps loss. (I do love the name though)

15

That’s what I’m talking about.

If I 260 weapon has damage that goes from 100-200, that equates to 150 average damage per hit, which is the equivalent of 150 str which is 150 AP. The DPS of the weapon is calculated from the weapon’s attack speed, but the absolute value of the weapon damage is still 150 AP.

So, you then add that 150 to your total Str from gear and that’s your AP.

Using a weapon like ironfoe compared to a 260 weapon, I lose 50 str and ~150 AP, or 200 AP combined.

It’s definitely less, but saying that the weapon level itself is more important I believe is incorrect. It is simply the total value of the damage + stats on the weapon.

16

This is not how it works.

Weapon damage was normalized yes but it’s not = to str. It’s a separate calculation. Str modifies your weapon damage. So weapon damage is the biggest increase in ability damage. Since AP modifies a bigger number from weapon.

If you have 2,000 AP modifying your tiny Iron foe it isn’t a big increase.
If you have 2,000 AP modifying a 275 weapon it’s a massive increase.

17

Oh I know it will decrease damage, but not on the order of magnitude that I see in a difference between me and a DK tank for example. I think another poster explained why that is. For what it’s worth, Ironfoe is 500-1kdps less than a 260 weapon - my original post was wanting to understand why my damage was 5-8k less than other tanks at times - that is not because of Ironfoe - I’ve tinkered with it extensively.

And of course, swapping out damage trinkets has made a huge difference - I think that and the other tip around TC has made my dps jump up by ~2k

18

Weapon damage is your single greatest increase to ALL abilities. Full stop. Your Tclap, Revenge, Shield Slam, Ignore Pain. All of them! You are massively hurting yourself using Ironfoe. You will realize this hopefully soon because you have the math all wrong.

However as someone that is complaining about Dps as Prot maybe…just maybe…Ironfoe is your problem.

This is just not true. :man_facepalming:

It is because of Iron Foe though. Think about this logically. Do you really think Blizzard wants for weapons to not be important? That you can just wear any weapon and it will be okay? That isn’t how it works.

A weapon from 9.0 is way worse than 9.2.5 not to mention using Iron foe.

You are probably doing about 40-50% less damage because of Ironfoe. Take this advice as you want though. We literally found the problem! It’s Ironfoe!! We didn’t think you were actually using it.

19

It is true, and I’m not sure where you are getting 40-50% less damage because it’s nowhere close to that.

It couldn’t be that much because, literally, when I equip Ironfoe vs a 260 weapon, there’s a ~250 damage difference on Shield slam. What you’re describing simply does not align with what it shows in-game, or on meters, full stop. I understand what you’re claiming, but the facts from the ACTUAL numbers disprove it.

And again, I’m not talking about the weapon itself. With or without it, I was simply curious as to why other tanks would have 2-3x my dps, and that has been explained - Ironfoe was not the issue.

20

It will be close to that since you are significantly hurting your base damage of abilities that are then modified by buffs, AP, conduits, Leggos, Soulbinds. Shooting your base damage and healing in the foot just recks everything else.

It’s the age old saying 50% of nothing is still nothing. Wearing Ironfoe is like wearing nothing.

On a positive note - Ironfoe is grandfathered in and doesn’t drop anymore for Twinks shame your toon is max level or that you equipped it. Since it would be worth millions since it’s an awesome low level weapon. Key words there…Low level.

I love your name and loved that weapon. However it’s a weapon of the past and can’t be used on Max level toons unless you want to be irrelevant and significantly hamper your abilities.