How did the internet become the most censored and thought policed medium in the world?

I been an internet jockey for as long as there was an internet. literally grew up with it. and at first, it was the perfect bastion of free speech. ye, there was a lot of nasty crap you would encounter, but that is what happens when nothing is curated. you, the user/viewer had to learn how to sift through the garbage for the truth. it wasnt sanitized, but it also wasnt sculpted. you could find opposing viewpoints. you could voice dissent. people on opposite sides of a topic could engage on equal footing. share data sources, compare reasoning, and seek the truth of a matter.

now? every single major website is thought policed to the Nth degree. itā€™s far FAR beyond profanity, though that is certainly an aspect too. and they are self feeding too, google refers to reddit, which refers to youtube, which refers to reddit, and its all circular. it used to be a wilderness, now the internet feels like a pen with about 5 sites. all of which are micromanaged by people with the same goals and ideology, and anyone who strays outside the ā€˜permittedā€™ ideals are silenced, banned, and erased. quite often without even knowing it. ever heard of shadowbanning? itā€™s the newest fad among authoritarians who wish to control the narrative. your comment is hidden from the public, but YOU see it so you THINK your voice was heard and ignored, rather than being stifled. it creates the false impression that no one agrees with you, or even thinks you are worth engaging with.

look at this forum as an example. the rules for language are more stringent than a childā€™s cartoon on television. i have had multiple posts removed for ā€˜being offensiveā€™ simply for voicing dissent to a narrative. i have had comments edited without being notified, mods LITERALLY putting words in my mouth, or taking them out. and the worst part? these forums are actually better than most on the internet. they are tolerant of people discussing the ā€˜other sideā€™, relatively speaking. and even so, we are absolutely not free to speak our minds. we have to behave in a manner deemed ā€˜acceptableā€™. which is literally dripping with irony, consideringā€¦

this is a very dangerous trend. when people cant discuss topics openly, and honestly, we make it impossible to discern the truth of anything. we are building a kingdom of lies, and the powers that be are doing their absolute utmost to create the illusion that everyone is on the same side except for some FEW radicals. there is something rotten in our world today, and instead of trying to figure out the source we are dumping perfume about by the bucketful. to speak metaphorically.

5 Likes

I grew up in a fairly dysfunctional and manipulative micromanaging type environment with my parents. Itā€™s very tenuous and arduous walking that walk with a very policed environment where every motion, action, and whatever is judged and looked at. I suppose a military family being on top of this didnā€™t help.

What this does is makes expression feel stifled, speech restricted to the point of difficulty forming ones own opinion, and feeling as if youā€™re spending all your time wondering around a minefield.

In the end, you canā€™t tell people how to think. You CAN force them to dance to your tune in various circumstances and say or do what you want. But you canā€™t control how they really feel unless you take away their full autonomy and control them completely. This is scary territory too. This is why things like the election were shocking because of this controlling narative that blinded a certain subset ascribing to a certain way of thinking. It leads further and further into an extremist mindset and approach that isnā€™t conducive to a healthy society in my view at least.

In addition, it mimics a very authoritarian environment similar to other countries where you may have various civil liberties restricted by certain rules. Anything and everything can become offensive, statues again toppled, history changed, and more to suit a narrative.

In the end an extreme form of control designed to fill the needs of a certain group of people from wherever they come from hurts more than it helps.

1 Like

I think itā€™s a combination of multiple things but Iā€™d say the biggest one was the popularity of the smart phone. Once everyone started being online 24/7 the internet became too impactful for companies to ignore. People who previously never or rarely got online now had massive influence.

Reddit in particular managed to cannibalize every forum. We used to have unique forums for every topic that were moderated in their own way. Now theyā€™re all condensed to one platform. Thereā€™s a handful of mods (I think 6-8 last time I checked), who overlap the top 500 communities.

Thereā€™s also the element of money for Reddit. Itā€™s clear bots and the DNC spend a lot to keep their message on the front page. Ghislaine Maxwell was a mod of World News and had a massively influential reddit account. Pretty much every right leaning subreddit is banned except r/Conservative.

Reddit was doomed the moment Aaron Schwartz died. He was the one who kept it a free speech platform. I knew the second fat people hate was banned the reason I liked the website was done. It was only interesting to me because I could read so many different opinions and viewpoints even if I disagreed with them. Itā€™s still a treasure trove of information though.

Some platforms are simply too big. Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc are all basically monopolies that shouldā€™ve been smashed a long time ago. People arenā€™t going to switch because theyā€™re simply too big.

As for Blizzard, well it was once a company of nerdy gamers and now itā€™s a huge corporation. I think most gaming is like that now. Overly sanitized to the point of stifling creativity. Too many cooks in the kitchen and no unique gameplay loops, too many suits running the companies purely off profit and not making good games.

If you told the people running Blizzard in 2004/2005 weā€™d have a $90 cash shop mount and be able to purchase gold they wouldā€™ve laughed in our faces.

2 Likes

spitting truth. both of you. but i do want to point out the information on reddit is very controlled. while, yes, there is a ton of it, that it is only ā€˜approvedā€™ information is more damaging than none at all as it creates a false impression of what is what.

also on the topic of reddit, something i realized awhile ago, is that them banning accounts is a multi faceted tactic. first, they always tell you to make a new account when they do ban you. you can even reuse the same email if you delete/change the one associated with your now banned account. which makes their metrics look way better than they are. most bans result in a ā€˜newā€™ user in their analytics. and secondly, every time people are banned and make a new account they are a little more hesitant to speak freely. it is actively training their users to fall in line. and the absolute lack of a viable alternative means that often people who outright hate what it has become will still engage. but they upshot is, when they ban your account they dont want to get rid of you, they want you to boost their numbers, while knowing each time you are slapped you will try just a little harder to avoid being slapped again.

you nailed it about aaron. his death was a tragedy on many levels most people will never begin to comprehend.

3 Likes

I literally havenā€™t seen ANYWHERE online where I feel comfortable to consistently express myself openly and honestly. The ONLY safe approach Iā€™ve found anywhere, be it here or on reddit or anywhere else, is to dumb myself down to the point of just not caring enough to take a clear position on anything.

4 Likes

Yeah, this is a very complex and depressing issue.

On one hand, there has been an acceptance of the idea that ā€œmisinformationā€ should be censored. While that sounds good in theory, itā€™s actually a very dangerous position to take because itā€™s simply too easy for that ā€œmisinformationā€ label to be applied to ā€œanything I disagree withā€. When you consider the number of things that were once labeled as ā€œmisinformationā€, but were later proven to be true, itā€™s pretty scary. I feel like there needs to be consequences for when things get labeled as ā€œmisinformationā€, if itā€™s not actually misinformation.

Yet on the other-hand, we have actual hostile nation-states that employ entire cyber-armies that work 24/7 to push propaganda and directly influence the American people via the internet. Real ā€œmisinformationā€. Just look at the comments section of almost any news article from any mainstream news outlet and youā€™ll quickly notice that many/most of the replies are from bots or full of broken engrish and clearly pushing a certain agenda. Especially if itā€™s an article about a controversial topic like Taiwan or Ukraine.

So how can we protect people from influence campaigns waged by hostile nation-states while simultaneously allowing free and uncensored exchange of information between Americans (and others in free Democratic countries)?

I donā€™t have a good answer unfortunately. Iā€™d personally learn toward limiting censorship at all costs, even if it makes it easier for hostile nation-states. But that requires people to be smart enough to sift through the data on their own, and even challenge their own beliefs at times, instead of simply grasping onto anything that they want to believe.

I worry that that level of critical thinking is quickly becoming a lost art, replaced by social-media echo-chambers where people coalesce into comfortable groups of people who all agree with each other. Thatā€™s a problem because humans are inherently tribalistic. If you get enough people together who believe that the earth is flat or that bigfoot is real, they will eventually all confirm each otherā€™s beliefs and end up genuinely believing that itā€™s true, regardless of how insane it is.

2 Likes

hit the nail on the head. critical thinking is dying, and i think that is the intent. notice in public school we dont teach reason. we dont teach kids how to think, we teach them to memorize. and it goes back to the root cause of every problem in our society; authority. reason and authority are diametrically opposed. one cannot exist where the other has sway. in other words; you cannot reason with anyone who has the means to declare ā€˜because i say soā€™.

and a human without reason is a lion without teeth.

look at the one, sole aspect of our society that is designed from the ground up to preclude authority. science. look at what it has accomplished. it changed everything, even while having to work within a larger limiting framework. that is human potential unburdened by tyrants.

we are not tribal by nature, i reject that concept out of hand. our nature is to adapt. when we are adapting to a system, even one of our own creation, that penalizes challenging authority we become less reasonable by necessity. people are fallible, we are usually wrong about most everything we think we knowā€¦ especially when people do not, or cannot, challenge flawed conclusions. and there is the insidious threat of authority; it cannot be wrong. it cannot self correct. nor can those wearing the trappings of it.

here is a thought for you. why, exactly, do you think there are ā€˜hostile nation-statesā€™ out to get you? what is your source for that idea? and what corroborating evidence have you seen independent of those sources? or another question to ask yourselfā€¦ who benefits from people, even people in favor of open discourse, being willing to consider the necessity of censorship? being willing to consider the concept itself as valid? its a slippery slope, and its been normalized to the point we dont even question it. we dont even point out how stupid it actually is. is ANYONE fooled by ā€œBLEEP you!ā€, or ā€œeat @#$&ā€? its merely preformative, but we go along with it because challenging those who enforce it is impossible. you are simply silenced. because, once again, you cannot reason with authority.

that is the crux of the issue. the internet was a new frontier. somewhere authority had no power, and so reason was free to thrive. and when those with authority realized they werent in control of the narrative they shifted gears, HARD. they bought the servers. hijacked the message boards. inserted their agents into every aspect of virtual discourse under the guise of protecting civility. ā€˜think of the childrenā€™ they cry, while treating us like infants.

the answer? we found it last time we had a new frontier away from the kings of old. it was enshrined as the first right above all else. ā€œi may not agree with what you say, but i will defend with my life your right to say it.ā€ when was the last time you heard that sentiment? when was the last time you saw criticism defeated rather than silenced?

that is why stupid has been allowed to run rampant. dissent is healthy. it is necessary for us to continue to develop better ideas, to come to better conclusions. it is mandatory for the evolution of thought that our species requires to thrive.

or even survive.

1 Like

I never said anything about them being ā€œout to get meā€. Itā€™s not about ā€œmeā€. Itā€™s more of a basic ā€œdivide and conquerā€ strategy. Stoke the division that already exists in our country until people split into groups that hate each other more than they hate hostile countries, and our entire country becomes weaker as a result.

There is also strong motivation among certain nation-states to steer the narrative on certain issues. Post something like ā€œTaiwan is not a part of Chinaā€ in the comments section of a news article and immediately watch the wave of Chinese bots and members of the Chinese cyber-army roll in to quash your dissent. Iā€™m not repeating something I read in an article. This is literally something Iā€™ve witnessed first-hand hundreds of times, and itā€™s obvious what is going on.

Iā€™m not supporting censorship, but we do need to address the fact that the internet has given hostile governments and other foreign actors direct access to the American people, and this shouldnā€™t simply be ignored either.

I work in IT and spend a lot of time helping people who have become victims of phishing scams. The majority of these phishing scams originate from outside of the country, and in fact, scamming Americans has become one of the most profitable industries in many countries. This is going to get worse as AI makes phishing attempts less obvious. While I DO NOT think that censorship is the answer, I donā€™t think that we should abandon the idea of trying to help protect people in these situations either.

Again, a complicated and depressing topic with no easy answer. The closest thing to an answer is to educate people to question everything and think as critically as possible, however in reality things seem to be moving in the opposite directionā€¦

3 Likes

im sorry, my phrasing was flippant. was not intended as a slight against you, was just trying to express the idea in an entertaining fashion. but you are completely correct. they keep us dividedā€¦ and stupid. its the meme of the rich guy with the plate full of cookies pointing at the immigrant with none saying he wants your cookie.

but what i was trying to point at isā€¦ bot farms do indeed mass produce such posts. and they may well be (often are) located in other countries. but, what exactly does china/russia/bad guy of the week stand to gain? what is the benefit to a foreign nation sowing dissent in america? they got their own crap to sort out. but you know who DOES benefit from the idea of ā€˜hostile nation-statesā€™? thatā€™s right, those with authority right here at home. our governments have bombed our own people for false flag operations before. contracting a bot farm is trivial by comparison.

yer also right about the phishing scams. and while other governments may not care about prosecuting their own citizens for exploiting people in other nations, it is the individuals doing this for personal gain. the US is well known for going to war with little to no justification, i dont think there is a government that would genuinely risk that without very good reason. and again, what would they gain? they got their own problems to sort out, and inviting the wrath of the nation with the largest military in the world would not help with any of them. america is already not interfering with russia or china. so why poke the bear? it would gain them nothing, and risk everything.

its information warfare. as soon as we consider the idea of information control as valid we lose. you dont think censorship is the answerā€¦ yet. but if you keep seeing the same things, and it keeps scaling up, and you think it isnt domestic you may. and that is the play, i almost certain of it.

the answer, ultimately, i think is the complete abolishment of this idea of authority. note that i am not decrying laws, or the enforcement of them. but the idea that one person should have the means to control what another says, does, or thinks. if we, as a society, agree to a set of laws to abide by, then we undermine that concept allowing some to be exempt from them. we figured out that kings were a bad ideaā€¦ then we made a system with a thousandtiny kings instead of one big one. and its giving rise to the same problems. but we are a long, LONG, way from figuring that out. sadly. most people consider authority as necessary, and will continue to do so until we have an education system that actually teaches people how to think. how to reason. and probably for a couple generations.

on the short termā€¦ dont really have an answer. baby steps towards that ideal is the best i can come up with. but those with authority never relinquish it willingly, and are also in exactly the position required to ensure we cant take any away.

Well said.

It will probably get worse as those indoctrinated via the ā€˜education systemā€™ become older as they only know how to believe anything fed to them through mainstream and social media. Most arenā€™t able to think well on their own.

[edit]
Sometimes I wonder if other countries apart from American/western culture are better off in this sense: say, Japan. But I have no idea.

1 Like

Thatā€™s a very easy question to answer: Societal disunity is what they have to gain. At the highest level, each major world power is playing a game of control tied back to the basics of human psychology. Resources, influence, military power, etc. The US is considered the world power and the existence of the US as a military superpower disrupts the ability of other emerging superpowers to grow their economy, land borders, and resources.
The existence of nuclear weapons and the sheer military power of the US means direct confrontation is idiotic. Itā€™s easier to cause political upheaval and disrupt countries like the US via internal political struggles.

Cybersecurity dude here. Social engineering specialist. Yours is arguably the most logical take in this thread.

Lol as if the DNC and Dems are the only ones with a hand in the reddit cesspool. World News is right-leaning now with at least one specific middle-east nationā€™s information forces having a huge hand in what shows up, while other news reddits tend to lean far left.
Twitter and Facebook are at the same time completely inundated with bots and propaganda churners and essentially useless as social media platforms at this point.

Advertisers set the rules of society.

The Golden Rule. He who has the Gold, makes the rules.

1 Like

To be honest with you I wouldnā€™t know what direction most subreddits lean these days. Iā€™ve visited the front page a few times and itā€™s been mostly left-wing propaganda. Iā€™m talking the left equivalent of qanon making outrageous claims. Most people on there desperately need to unplug and get off the internet for awhile.

I havenā€™t used the platform much in recent years. I wouldnā€™t be surprised at all if most of the websiteā€™s infested with bots now. Iā€™m sure redditā€™s decisions are made strictly from a financial perspective. Having a lot of the old subredditā€™s would definitely not sit well with advertisers.

As far as the other social media platforms Iā€™ve never used them. In my mind social mediaā€™s the equivalent of junk food. It feels good and gives you a dopamine hit, but ultimately itā€™s bad for you if not taken in moderation.

People think Iā€™m insane for not using them but Iā€™m in much better physical and mental shape than than most people around me.

Reddit is a huge source of political manipulation and hive mind. Iā€™m not going to get all conspiracy theories in here, but its had a huge impact on the younger generation who go there regularly and think that because the topics there are very left-leaning, thatā€™s how everyone needs to think. Reddit has the biggest community of vocal extremists on the web right now. I hear a lot of people say that its one of the last places on the web with freedom of speech, but I think itā€™s the opposite. The heavy sub-reddit moderation and natural flow of up-voted and down-voted topics make it so you could post something factual, but if a private party doesnā€™t like it, its very easy to manipulate out of existence.

2 Likes

There isnā€™t very much in the way of right wing options on Reddit anymore. Just the Conservative board, I think.

It is an extremely left website, with a lot of mods very liberal. That said, I donā€™t use it for politics at all. Games, specific tech, and other hobby interests for me.

I only keep a Facebook for staying in touch with family and friends that donā€™t use Discord. Though I have other accounts, Iā€™m not active on other social media at all. Despite doing cosplay, I canā€™t even bring myself to be active on Instagram, due to the vitriolic nature and insane censorship they goes on with just fitness pics. It and Twitter go hand in hand with Tiktok.