How Classic+ (specifically) could add Undead "Paladins", while still respecting Lore

First off; I know some people may object to the idea of Horde Paladins purely on the notion that it’s something that helped the Horde and Alliance feel distinct in Classic. While I don’t necessarily feel the same way, I totally respect that opinion, and I’m not here to try to convince you otherwise.

The other rebuttal I often here – and I myself am in complete agreement of – is that Undead Paladins are quite literally impossible by established lore.

This isn’t a “quick throw-away line” from some obscure quest or book from decades ago; it’s a huge basis for a lot of the Scourge storylines. Paladins’ bodies are infused with the power of the Light itself, which simply cannot co-exist with Undeath (or Void, for that matter).

Because the Legion expansion focuses quite heavily on your Paladin becoming the Highlord of the Silver Hand, the mightiest and holiest of all Paladins, it basically means that an Undead (or Void Elf) Paladin is strictly imposible.

in Retail.

See, “Classic+” has a unique advantage here; they aren’t quite so hemmed-in. You’ll note in the title of this very thread, I put the term “Paladin” in quotation marks.

That’s because we’re going to do something a little different here.

Let’s paint ourselves a little picture…

After the fall of Lordaeron, the Knights of the Silver Hand either died in battle, were slowly driven out of their lands, or were radicalized by the founding of the Scarlet Crusade. Either way, because Paladins of the Silver Hand were immune to the plague of undeath, none among them ever joined the ranks of the Forsaken.

As such, among most of the Forsaken, the tenants of the Light are generally no longer held in high regard. While many of Lordaeron’s citizens may have held some amount of faith in life, most have found their undeath proof of the Light’s failings.

However, even among the embittered people of the Forsaken, there yet remain a few who still cling to these old values. Perhaps some were citizens who held the Silver Hand in high regard in life, seeing them as heroes who fought valiantly, ultimately giving their lives in the pursuit of justice. Maybe there are those whose existence now seems so utterly bleak, so utterly hopeless, they will cling to anything that gives them some shred of hope for an uncertain future.

Sir Gregory Edmunson, a former Paladin himself, in life had cast his faith aside and willingly became a Death Knight. Without his faith (and blessing of the Light) to protect him, however, he became susceptible to undeath, and eventually became a reanimated corpse himself.

However, upon seeing his close friend Aeonas – another member of the Silver Hand – sacrifice himself for a noble cause, Gregory was reminded of why he had become a member of the Silver Hand in the first place. While he may no longer possess the powers he’d had as a Paladin in life, he still remembers their teachings – as well as their martial training regiments.

Sir Gregory, he has returned to Tirisfal Glades in what many would call a doomed quest; to bring hope to a hopeless people, to remind that even in death, there can be grace and purpose to their existence.

An outcast even among outcasts, Sir Gregory has begun looking for squires to help build a new order – a community of kindred spirits who simply seek to ease the suffering of their fellow. All are welcome to join this budding order – Gregory would welcome anyone, even those who might’ve been deemed “unworthy” of the Silver Hand, in life. They are taught the core teachings and values of the Silver Hand – the need to protect those who cannot teach themselves – but where real members of the Silver Hand wield the Light, Gregory and his squires have no such luxury.

However, through his time as a Death Knight, Gregory became familiar with how to wield the power of souls – and now believes they may learn to wield ones’ own soul to empower their failing bodies.

Known as “Martyrs”, these squires are taught to wield their own souls, potentially sacrificing what little remains of their soul to damnation, in order to protect their brothers and sister in undeath.

As a “Undead Martyr”, you are mechanically identical to a Paladin in almost every way. Your spells and talents all have different names and perhaps new or recolored icons, and the flavor text may even fail to recognize the source of your magic (ie. your spells may claim to deal “Spiritual damage”, as opposed to Holy specifically).

Speaking to Gregory at any time, he would also answer any lingering lore questions. For example, he was able to briefly with Truthbringer, a holy weapon that belonged to his friend Aeonas, but doing so caused him great pain. This serves as the basis of the term “Martyrs”, as it is implied that all of your equipment causes you physical pain, but that you do so because it is the only way you can defend those who cannot defend themselves.

As a Martyr, Sir Gregory would be the only Class trainer in the entire game, although you might “unlock” a new additional trainers through a handful of class quests. For example, you might get quests in which you interact with other members of the Forsaken, who believe you cling to the beliefs of those who are now their enemies, and believe your loyalties may no longer belong to your own people. You may also interact with actual members of the Silver Hand, some of whom are met with a sense of curiosity at the notion that you fashion yourself as a “follower” of their same beliefs, while others (especially Scarlets) might recoil in disgust, believing your existence is an abomination, and that your newfound “beliefs” are a perversion of their own sacred beliefs.

The biggest thing is; through whatever little story would exist for the “Martyr” class, it is made adundantly clear that you are among the first, and among the only Martyrs that exist. Even Gregory is still “figuring this out”, how to wield their spiritual life force. Notable NPC’s that join the Martyrdom (the name of your order) might include Leonis Barthalomew, who was obviously affiliated with the Silver Hand in some measure, despite not having been a full-blown Paladin himself (I would honestly kind of consider him the poster-child of the “Martyr” class option, since I feel like everyone loves his character). You might also get a quest to help resurrect Ada Darkhardt, Gregory’s former apprentice, a young woman who seemed to have her own untold story waiting to be explored, and could make another great “class leader” in the future.

Now, let’s talk specifics:

On a technical level, the Martyr isn’t hard-coded to be a “Paladin”. Rather, they’re a class that is basicaklly a copy-paste of the entire class, with mostly aesthetic changes. Because items are hard-coded to be Class specific, you might even have an NPC that “converts” Paladin items (previously inaccessible to the Horde entirely) into “Martyr” items. Ideally, you add a logic to the way Paladins are displayed, like “If Horde=Y, Then Class=Martyr, Else: Class=Paladin”). But if nothing else, just any Paladin-specific items, and edit them for Martyrs. Heck, it might even be a great way to implement recolors (ie. the blue-and-brown Judgement recolor would look right at home here).

Again, they would be mechanically identical, mostly just “flavor” and aesthetic differences.

Why I think many Players would accept this:

See, as one of those weirdos who actually does care a lot about the lore, one of my greatest fears about “Undead Paladins” is that their addition would basically throw a ton of very, very important lore to the wayside.

Similarly, I started WoW as a Paladin, and its lore is particularly important to me.

With this implementation, I feel like you’re not only adding “Paladins” to the Horde, but you’re also making actual Paladins seem even cooler in the process.

While Martyrs would be mechanically identical, in the lore and storytelling here, there’s a big focus on these being the “underdogs”, who aren’t as powerful or as blessed as real Paladins. Knights of the Silver Hand would still remain the ultimate “holy warriors” in Warcraft, and if anything, Martyrs’ existence only serves to heighten just how unique and powerful they are.

At the same time, it gives a fresh perspective on the Forsaken, and even as a Paladin main myself, I could see something like this feeling like an entirely new experience. Again, maybe your quests have you specifically dealing with members of the Forsaken and exploring some of their emotions about their situation. Normally, the Forsaken are presented as uncaring, morally-ambiguous at best, and often times straight-up evil; but maybe as a Martyr, you actually witness how much the Forsaken actually hate the teachings of the Light, and see the Silver Hand and the Alliance as a whole as a bunch of hypocrites. Or maybe becoming a “hero” not by slaying great enemies of the Forsaken, but instead pulling some among the Forsaken out of a pit of despair – or maybe a few tragic cases where you fail to save someone.

I dunno; I love me some Paladin lore, but I feel like you could really take something like this is a really cool, unique direction.

I’ll also add; I quite like the term “Martyr”, as there is a Seal of the Martyr that deals damage to you, so the name works on multiple levels. However, I also thought the term “Revenant” sounded like a pretty good “class” name. Or heck, maybe you guys have a better name?

But in any case, I feel like this would solve virtually any lore issue with adding the option. In fact, like I said, I feel like if anything, it actually makes existing Paladins seem even more distinctive, while also offering a brand new option on the Horde. I would honestly, genuinely love to experience the Horde questing journey from the context of this fledgeling knight who is just trying to make some kind of a difference in the world.

Just my two cents, but I feel like this would honestly be a pretty solid addition to any sort of “Classic+”, because you don’t have all that Legion lore really hemming you in on the fact you are most definitely a traditional holy Paladin of the Silver Hand.

3 Likes

lol yeah this ain’t happening. too much work and frankly paladins aren’t any more special than other classes to warrant this kind of attention and focus

Rofl the lore isn’t the problem, it’s the homogenization of each faction so that they’re the same.

1 Like

Just add it who cares lmao its already a ded game

2 Likes

I mean, there are Forsaken Priests. And they already retconned how they heal before the game even launched.

From talks with a guildie, it sounds like the Shadow Tree was how the Forsaken priests were going to heal. But Blizzard scrapped the idea of having two types of priests and just rolled the concept into the Shadow talent tree.

Plus, it’s already been established that you can wield the Light by proxy; the Blood Elves use the Na’ru, initially, to channel the Light.

So…you just have them roll as a lvl 52 Forsaken Paladin in an instanced version of WPL and play through the final moments of Andorhal, which ends with you finding a holy relic from the crypt to the left of the Uther shrine.

Boom. Now you have Forsaken Paladins. That were once Human Paladins of the Silver Hand. That way you don’t need new spell names, or new spells.

Note: Alliance shamans; Dwarves, would start in an instanced version of Hinterlands. That’s why starting at 52 is fine. - No one cares to do the ‘starter zone’ grind again. Give us something new.

Nah. Just do Undead Paladin straight up no wiffle waffling. Full send that you play as a former Silver Hand Knight and wield the Light. Just say Sylvanas tried to keep their existence somewhat quiet and outcast from Undercity.

Same thing with Dwarf Shaman, they have to train elsewhere until the three hammers thing in Cata. Ez pz.

No. No more blending races / classes!

Like I said, I completely understand if some folks want to keep them Faction-locked. I also agree they add to the unique identity of each faction and help Vanilla feel truly “classic”.

But if they do want to add them, I feel like this would be the way to do it.

As said, established lore precludes Undead from being able to become Paladins. Paladins are immune to the plague of undeath (even Death Knights in WC3 were technically still alive), and because Paladins’ holy power is literally coursing through their bodies, an “Undead Paladin” would immediately burst into flames.

That’s where I feel like this idea of a “new class” would fit in kind of perfectly. It still respects the original lore, while at the same time giving what I think is a fairly organic explanation to how you could essentially have “Undead Paladins” in all but name.

I would personally argue that additions to lore were one of SoD’s greatest strengths, and at least for myself, probably the biggest reason I hate retail right now (one-button rotation hasn’t helped matters).

Like I said, I personally could go either way on whether Pally and Shammy should remain faction-locked; I see both sides. My only fear is that is they were expanded to both factions, I don’t want to see them just throw their hands up and say “eh, whatever, the lore doesn’t matter anymore” the same way they did on retail by letting every race become Warlocks.

I hope they never do it. Faction identity is a big selling point of classic plus undead paladin is just too much, Paladins are literally an undead slaying class in the lore. Want to play Paladin go Alliance quit this stupid fetish.

1 Like

Holy power being part of youre very body as paladin is head canon. What you are describing is becoming Lightforged. Paladins just wield the light. They can be disconnected from it. One of the greatest paladins in existence was, i.e. Tirion Fordring.

A paladin is just a priest who learns combat or a warrior who learns the holy light from a priest. And they belong to an order of other paladins.

Undead can wield the holy light. Undead priests do so in the in game lore accurate text of their first class quest

If undead can wield the holy light as a priest in the in-game quest texts, they can as a paladin. you don’t have to make it more complicated than that.

Not so; this is covered in the book “Of Blood and Honor”, which you reference. When Tirion Fordring is cut off from the Light, he also becomes physically weaker. It’s also why Paladins were immune to undeath, but not Priests.

So, there’s quite a few significant differences between Priests and Paladins.

What youre describing is not an accurate portrayal and a forum myth. I’ve read of Blood and Honor, and ive reread the portion where he is banished from the human paladin order. I’m happy to pull it out and quote it for you.

The way his banishment from the paladin order for helping eitrigg was described was as if he suffered an emotional-based trauma response. There is 0 evidence in that book that he is physically weaker due the composition of his body changing. The text uses emotional descriptors during the banishment, and does not describe that his body is made of pure light energy. At the moment of his banishment from the paladin order, he does not even show many physical signs of weakness.

The paladin order was made because priests were not well trained in combat and warriors without the light were not cutting it against the scourge, not because they possessed unique powers. The lore around this topic is much more grounded than you think. Paladins are not immune to undeath either. Another headcannon. "Sir Ziliek was a paladin so strong in faith in life that in undeath… "

The difference between a holy undead priest who knows how to wield a sword well & had martial combat training and wears plate armor and a human paladin is basically formal membership in a paladin order. The rest you can argue is the narcissism of small differences. Are smite and exocism truly that different? Is a blessing that buffs someone much different than a prayer or power word that buff someone?

The way the intial paladin order was constructed was priests like Alonsus Faol teaching warriors how to wield the light like priests and some warriors/paladins teaching priests how to wield swords and combat. They then merely formalized it into a specific order. The only difference is paladins wield the light in conjunction with their combat whereas priests wield the light by itself with no weapons.

Being light forged aka your body is made of pure light is separate from being a paladin who wields the light.

TLDR: The in game lore says undead priest can wield the light. The in game lore does not say the way paladins and holy priests weird the light is functionally different than how priests wield the light. Paladins were originally warriors taught by priests or the other way around. ipso facto. undead should be able to be paladins without any game breaking lore added

Well lore for it was started in SoD in regard to the Truthbearer questline and Gregory. Then you add Zeliek to the mix as well as what we saw in retail in regard to the Priory and what happened with Calia Menethil with our Scarlet Council fight as the cherry on top for SE.

Yes, its def doable and 100% a possible outcome here. There is enough lore instances to back this up.

To which one could say you could do Undead/Tauren Paladins all the while having Dwarf and ??? Shamans to keep it even.