You’re both wrong.
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Should’ve given Garrosh growth as a character after the northrend campaign and spending time with Saurfang.
Oh, they did. It was called, “Garrosh in Stonetalon.”
Then they said, “nah, that wasn’t really what we wanted to go with,” and threw it out.
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I’m on Team Pancake myself, but don’t feel very strongly on the issue.
Why has no one stood up in defense of Crepes? Crepes are good. Or German/Swedish pancakes which are pretty much the same as crepes. My father tells me that my grandfather would always order the German pancakes whenever the family went to IHOP.
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I’d say give us one more expansion to destroy one more civilization unprovoked and maybe we’ll be redeemed then.
Fingers crossed 
I’m a waffle man myself, those rivets are perfect for maple syrup retention.
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It is actually baffling when you look back and realise how much time they’ve spent on characters like Anduin, Baine and nu-Thrall, who are as unpopular and groan-inducing as they have ever been.
And Blizzard refuses to change them! They are resolutely in favour of having these boring duds be the focal point of their stories. It’s bizarre.
Anduin baine and sylvanas are the biggest problem right now. But I am starting to realize there is no hope for the story to be enjoyable, going by shadowlands.
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Which leads me to suspect that we’re beginning to finally see the inevitably fallout of what has essentially been Blizzard’s (or is it Activision’s?) writers, producers, etc. placing more and more priority, and investing more and more time and resources, into what their company’s shareholders want, rather than what their company’s customers (i.e. the playerbase, the subscribers) want.
And if you think the current writing team is disconnected and apathetic when it comes to telling a good, creative/imaginative, and all-around fun story for an RPG, imagine how much more so are the people whose only interest lies in numbers, statistics, and stock options.
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I don’t know how you do respond to that but the Horde hasn’t even addressed what happened with Teldrassil.
For most of BFA none of the Horde seem to have even had reaction to it.
So right now its just sitting there like a giant elephant in the room that nobody would address. If you play on the Alliance side it is even worse, because you don’t even see the Horde rounding up bad Horde actors in chains and march them around.
Its just terribly presented all around.
So first it would need to be addressed, and then we can figure out what making amends means.
I personally think the Horde missed its chance of making amends, honestly in BFA they didn’t do anything to address the whole genocide thing. They didn’t seem to care at all, besides Thrall who barely gave it a mention.
I think to move on from it you need to start another war where both sides can land in some solid punches and use that opportunity to give life to new lovable characters with new gameplay mechanics.
Give the Alliance some revenge opportunity so aren’t a doormat.
Allow the Horde to be heroes of their own people and this time let their victories stand.
IE Alliance attacks first with brutal efficiency and let Horde have small but consistent victories to push them back. Kind of like BFA but better structured but minus large scale genocide.
Third time’s the charm right?
I think this should fix quite a few things.
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That or just Thrall naming another character warchief and let Garrosh grown. But I fear the Horde rebellion was on their plans.
I hope the alliance gets their own with Yrel being the real power while Turalyon a puppet in her regime and exiled Velen reflexing
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That’s what some are assuming going forward with a Light/Void expansion. We’ll see, I guess.
Prediction: “They’re not really part of the Alliance!”
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Another prediction: “Nothing we do can ever be as worse as Teldrassil, so it’s all fair game!”
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Exactly. I don’t get why people talk like that would fix anything.
I mean … I could think of things you could do with the Lightbound and the Forsakent in combination that could get REALLY bad. Not only would that forced conversion process be pretty monstrous to attempt on an Undead, but doing it to a Forsaken (who have already been forcibly altered by Magic and compelled to attack and kill their own loved ones) would certainly open up some old Trauma. Assuming they survive.
But I agree with others. Nothing the Alliance does in such a hypothetical would “make them equal” to bad Blizz made the Horde with Teld. At least from some people’s perspective. BUT, since that should never have been the goal anyway, simply having Turalyon even get Ner’Zhul’d and the get Lighbound once he’s realized he made a deal with the shiny Yrel devil … would be a decent enough story hook a the very least.
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Yeah, but see, that’s my point: ever since Garrosh with Theramore—and certainly since Sylvanas with Teldrassil—the moral scaling between the two factions has been so unbalanced that we need some form of “Oh, the Alliance can have bad apples too” if we want to get the faction relations back to their ideal state.
Because yeah, you’re on-point when you say
And it’s largely because of that—as well as the fact that Blizzard’s current writing team wouldn’t even dream of writing the Alliance as anything less than morally-perfect—that even if we did see things like
I guarantee they would find some way to justify it: “Oh, Calia and Anduin signed off on it, oh they’re just saving the Forsaken, the pain is good for them,” insert any number of draconian, medieval religious rationalizations, etc.
Because that’s where we are right now: Anything Horde is irredeemably Chaotic Evil, and only the Holy/Lawful Good Alliance can save them, especially from themselves.
Assuming, again, that the Alliance—particularly its shiny golden commander—is ever allowed to have flaws or imperfections to get that ball rolling to begin with.
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Which is why you do it when every one of those characters is conveniently locked away. So the characters your worried about keeping squeeky clean remain squeeky clean, but come back to an Alliance that’s made a mess. Same goes for the PCs.
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You don’t even have to go that far. Just find some way to tie it to Revendreth, and voila: suffering redeems.
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Nah, see…I don’t want them to be “squeeky clean.” They shouldn’t be “squeeky clean.”
Anduin literally ordered an attack on a previously-neutral kingdom that resulted in the death of its monarch, and then acted genuinely surprised and disappointed when that kingdom joined the opposing faction.
He gave Greymane little more than a lecture after Greymane ordered an unsanctioned assassination attempt on the Horde’s warchief, during a mutually-agreed upon armistice.
This isn’t about keeping Little Boy Blue and the Fairy Zombie Princess “squeeky clean,” it’s about how both they and the faction they represent aren’t allowed to be anything else…which is why we then get all the mud splashed onto the Horde.
Until the Alliance—any member, no matter how “shiny-golden Lightbound” they are—is actually called out for all the times that it doesn’t act “squeeky clean”—because you know every action the Horde takes is constantly scrutinized for the merest hint of immorality—nothing’s ever really going to change.
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